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hey guys Ryan Sprague here and before we

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get to this week's episode I just wanted

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to let you know that we will be

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discussing very controversial conspiracy

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theories and American politics in this

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week's interview the views expressed in

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this interview are solely those of my

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guests and myself and not the E1 podcast

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Network so without further Ado enjoy our

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interview with t krulis all about his

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new book American Madness and the

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Phantom Patriot

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

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welcome everyone to somewhere in the

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skies and know that lie on my shirt is

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not symbolism it's not a conspiracy it's

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actually my brand new shirt from the uh

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the guys over at I want to believe

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podcast I want to believe in humans

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podcast I should say

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um we're so nice to send this to me but

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symbolism and conspiracy theory is what

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we're going to be talking about tonight

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so buckle up this is going to be an

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amazing conversation with first-time

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guest and author T crewlis joining us

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City welcome for the very first time to

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summer in the skies my man hey Ryan I'm

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so glad to be here this is awesome I

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really love your show thank you thank

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you and I should say the same for you

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we'll talk all about your podcast and

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everything you got going on over at your

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website later but um today we're going

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to be talking about your newest book

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American Madness which uh oh man what a

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journey

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um I I don't remember the last time that

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I was so glued to a book that I forgot

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what time it was which is so easy to do

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in this pandemic lockdown World we're

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living in but um this book could not

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have come at a better time just not just

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to read but what it covers I mean it's

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startling how everything in this book

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which we will get to uh coincides with

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what's going on in the world right now

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so um let's not really waste any time

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man

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um the book is all about a dude named

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Richard McCaslin so I have to ask how

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did you find this guy we'll talk about

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his journey in the book and um all that

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but yeah how did you meet him and um how

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did you come to uh to understand who

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Richard was and what he means in in

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terms of the theme of your book

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yeah well this is pretty rare because

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it's kind of a story that fell in my lap

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and it forever changed my life and took

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my life into some strange directions

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but what happened was

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um in 2010 I was working on my first

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book uh which is titled heroes in the

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night I actually got a copy on my desk

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here

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um and this book is about this kind of

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unusual subculture of people that call

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themselves real life superheroes

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and they actually adopt their own

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superhero personas and some of them try

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to fight crime in the streets and uh

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others have a more mellow take where

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they do like charitable stuff

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um so I'm trying to wrap my head around

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this story and one of the good ideas I

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had at that time was I had started a

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Blog it was just a blog spot page that

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was also called heroes in the night and

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I was just you know talking about some

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of these uh real life superheroes that I

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was meeting and I'd write little blurbs

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about them if I found something

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interesting in my research I'd share it

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on the blog and it started to get some

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pretty good traffic because it got

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picked up by some media Outlets that

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were looking for an expert quote unquote

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um

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so one day I opened my email and I have

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a message from a guy named Richard

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McCaslin

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and he said uh I I found your blog and

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um I'm interested in this book that

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you're working on and I think that you

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might be interested in my story because

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uh back in the day I was a real life

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superhero known as the Phantom Patriot

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and Mike claim the fame is that in 2002

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I snuck into the Bohemian Grove and I

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lit it on fire and I was like

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what what is this guy talking about like

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uh I had never heard of the Bohemian

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Grove at that point

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um so I looked it up on Wikipedia and I

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was like this is really strange like it

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was you know we'll probably get into

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some more of the details but I was

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talking about rich and powerful men

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doing a a ritual in front of a statue of

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an owl

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and I was like okay well I don't know

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what's going on here but I'm interested

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in the story whatever it is uh so I

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messaged Richard back and I said yeah

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I'm I'm interested to hear about what

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your story is and how you got into the

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Bohemian Grove and that started this

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long almost 10-year process of slowly

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figuring out what Richard's life story

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was uh interviewing a lot of people who

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were involved in his life and uh one

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thing that was very clear pretty early

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on was that oh this guy is way into

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conspiracy theory

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um and so the book sort of evolved to

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talk about a lot of conspiracies and

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Richard was sort of my guide into

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conspiracy land he would tell me about

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something and I would look it up and and

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research it

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um you know and then it was a book that

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I was kind of struggling with the

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direction of where it would go

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um and in between my first book in this

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book I wrote two others so I would kind

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of work on this book and then put on the

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back burner sometimes for like a year

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you know and then I'd be like oh yeah

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that story I really want to tell it so

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I'd work on some more and interview some

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people and then eventually the book

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started to evolve in the direction of

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this kind of conspiracy culture that we

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find ourselves in now I was like wow a

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lot of the stuff that I'm seeing uh is

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stuff that Richard talked to me about

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years ago

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so that kind of became the goal towards

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the end of the writing process was to

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tie it into

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the bigger problem that's going on here

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yeah and I mean I'm I'm sure writing

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writing is never easy but you know the

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uh real world implication I think of

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what you were asking in the book kaida

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just fell in your lap in the last couple

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maybe four years or so and um I think

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people understand why that might be but

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we'll get to that

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um but yeah you did mention let's let's

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I guess kind of run through the Bohemian

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Grove a little bit I mean the first time

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I remember hearing about it was um I did

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read uh the John Ronson book yes I uh

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yeah yeah and what was the oh um decoded

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um Brad melts her television show and

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again I was just like whoa I mean I know

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like we heard heard about skull and

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bones and um yeah you know kind of stuff

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like that throughout the years but this

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was an actual place like you said where

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all these Elites came including like U.S

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presidents and whatnot I'll I'll shut up

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now and let you kind of run us through

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what did you learn about the Bohemian

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Grove give us a little crash course yeah

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I mean this was uh really uh one of the

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early hooks that really drew me into the

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story

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um because Richard had told me about

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this place uh and I started to hardcore

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research the Bohemian Grove

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um and what I found and this is going to

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be true of a lot of conspiracies was a

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lot of stuff he was telling me about

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this place was true

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so

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um the Bohemian Club started in the late

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1800s in San Francisco

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and sort of the original idea was that

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the club was going to help promote the

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Arts in San Francisco which was still a

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pretty new city at that time

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but uh and so the early members were a

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lot of poets and artists and journalists

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but they sort of ran into this classic

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dilemma where uh they were poor artists

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and they didn't have money to fund their

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their Vision or whatever so they began

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to invite in bankers and other Titans of

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Industry

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um over the years it evolved and

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um they bought up this land in Northern

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California which they called Bohemian

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Grove

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and it's this huge uh you know two or

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three Thousand Acre encampment

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um and this is sort of their Retreat now

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the members uh are some of the world's

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most powerful men it's a men only Club

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they don't allow media into the Bohemian

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Grove

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and so when Richard was telling me about

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this I was like

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okay I don't know how how you could know

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this but

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um I found a lot of reports by

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journalists who have snuck into the

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Grove over the years and a lot of

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historical documents so it sounds crazy

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but

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um you know yes uh Richard Nixon and

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Ronald Reagan were both members of the

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club and they did have a private

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discussion inside the Grove where they

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talked about which one of them would run

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for president first

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uh George W bush uh his father George

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H.W bush and Prescott Bush who is his

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father all members of the club lots of

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famous politicians uh entertainers

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owners of sports

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um leagues and stuff like that

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um and so when they pay for this

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membership which is is quite expensive

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um they have access to go to the Grove

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anytime they want as well as the

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Bohemian Club uh clubhouse which is in

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downtown San Francisco

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um but the big sort of party every year

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happens in mid-july they do this thing

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called the summer encampment and that's

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when most of the members go out there

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together so there's thousands thousands

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of of guys who go out there

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um and it's supposed to be this sort of

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fun relaxing uh two-week vacation where

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you know they go bird watching they go

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swimming in the river uh they drink a

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lot

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um and they sort of kick all this off

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with a pretty bizarre ritual that's

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called The Cremation of care

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it's this very theatrical performance

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where inside the Grove they have a

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40-foot statue of an owl

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um and some of these members are dressed

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up sort of as Druids and they come out

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with torches and they say this weird

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like cryptic nature poetry about how

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great mother earth is

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um and then they burn this Effigy in

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front of the owl and it's called dull

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care

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and this Effigy is supposed to represent

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all of their worldly hassles that they

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can burn and then they're free to party

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in the woods you know now that dull care

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has been burned

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so

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um it is a pretty weird ritual uh here's

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a fun fact the stone owl speaks to uh

276
00:12:33,470 --> 00:12:30,300
the assembled Bohemians and this voice

277
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:33,480
and this is true by the way the voice is

278
00:12:40,250 --> 00:12:36,540
a recording of golov news anchor Walter

279
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:40,260
Cronkite was a Bohemian Club member

280
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:53,829
when we learn

281
00:13:00,829 --> 00:12:57,839
at me you cannot slay

282
00:13:02,290 --> 00:13:00,839
year after year he burned me in this

283
00:13:05,380 --> 00:13:02,300
world

284
00:13:08,269 --> 00:13:05,390
lifting your beauty shop

285
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:08,279
[Music]

286
00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:12,480
our fellowship and me for a space and

287
00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:15,180
I'm a limitless which pursue is here has

288
00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:17,820
lost its power under these friendly

289
00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:19,500
trees

290
00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:22,500
so shall we include me once again this

291
00:13:28,970 --> 00:13:23,880
night

292
00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:28,980
and in the Flames that you find empty

293
00:13:35,569 --> 00:13:31,139
shall read the sign

294
00:13:40,610 --> 00:13:35,579
summer sets across free you shall fire

295
00:13:46,129 --> 00:13:43,550
so um you know it's it's kind of just a

296
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:46,139
bit of theatrics but that's kind of the

297
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:47,279
seed

298
00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:49,199
um all conspiracies sort of have this

299
00:13:53,930 --> 00:13:51,420
seed of Truth to them

300
00:13:55,850 --> 00:13:53,940
and the the rumors started to get out

301
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:55,860
and conspiracy theorists were like

302
00:14:01,009 --> 00:13:58,320
they're doing this Satanic ritual in

303
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:01,019
there and that owl is supposed to be

304
00:14:06,829 --> 00:14:04,980
moloch and uh maybe that's not an effigy

305
00:14:08,990 --> 00:14:06,839
maybe it's a real person that they're

306
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:09,000
burning in front of that owl and

307
00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:10,800
actually the Effigy looks kind of small

308
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:12,779
so maybe it's a child that they're

309
00:14:18,889 --> 00:14:15,360
burning inside of there and this is part

310
00:14:23,090 --> 00:14:18,899
of their new world order satanic you

311
00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:23,100
know child pedophile ring stuff uh which

312
00:14:28,490 --> 00:14:24,839
you know we've seen repeated over and

313
00:14:31,790 --> 00:14:28,500
over again this sort of mystical cabal

314
00:14:33,470 --> 00:14:31,800
of satanic uh figures who are secretly

315
00:14:36,889 --> 00:14:33,480
controlling the world

316
00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:36,899
right yeah and I mean like you said

317
00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:39,420
these things kind of recycle themselves

318
00:14:44,030 --> 00:14:41,820
into different iterations throughout

319
00:14:45,949 --> 00:14:44,040
conspiracy theory I think throughout the

320
00:14:49,129 --> 00:14:45,959
decades and um oh yeah we'll definitely

321
00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:49,139
get to kind of that seed of the Bohemian

322
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:52,680
Grove and the elites and how it is kind

323
00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:53,459
of

324
00:14:59,569 --> 00:14:57,839
itself and repackaged itself into

325
00:15:02,329 --> 00:14:59,579
something today

326
00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:02,339
um but yeah yeah the Bohemia Grove has

327
00:15:06,829 --> 00:15:04,680
been very fascinating to me

328
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:06,839
um I've I've looked a lot into it as

329
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,800
well

330
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:09,839
um you know and being in the UFO field

331
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:12,959
we deal with conspiracy theory all the

332
00:15:18,829 --> 00:15:16,800
time and that's that's hard because we

333
00:15:21,170 --> 00:15:18,839
never want to enable things that might

334
00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:21,180
not be true and cause people to do

335
00:15:25,490 --> 00:15:23,160
certain things or not do certain things

336
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,500
which again is the implication to many

337
00:15:29,329 --> 00:15:27,839
of these and those who spout these

338
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:29,339
conspiracy theories

339
00:15:33,170 --> 00:15:30,720
um I'm getting ahead of myself here

340
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:33,180
though T I want to go back to um

341
00:15:38,509 --> 00:15:35,880
tell us a little about Richard if you

342
00:15:41,569 --> 00:15:38,519
don't mind I mean this guy was heavily

343
00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:41,579
into comic books he uh he wanted to be a

344
00:15:45,769 --> 00:15:43,620
stunt man out in Hollywood at one point

345
00:15:47,689 --> 00:15:45,779
yeah I what I what I kind of envisioned

346
00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:47,699
when I started reading about him is this

347
00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:50,279
this aimless guy who's just trying to

348
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:52,500
figure out where he fits in the world

349
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:54,540
and a lot of people can relate to that

350
00:15:59,329 --> 00:15:57,360
all of us can in some way shape or form

351
00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:59,339
but um yeah could you paint us a little

352
00:16:03,769 --> 00:16:01,380
picture of who he is as a human being

353
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:03,779
before we kind of dive into what he's

354
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:06,600
best known for in uh conspiracy theory

355
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,399
circles yes

356
00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:10,800
um so that was kind of my second step my

357
00:16:14,509 --> 00:16:12,360
first step was was this place of

358
00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:14,519
Bohemian Grove I'd never heard of it and

359
00:16:19,850 --> 00:16:16,380
I wanted to find out like why someone

360
00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:19,860
would be motivated to you know stage a

361
00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:21,540
raid on this place which is what Richard

362
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:22,440
did

363
00:16:28,370 --> 00:16:25,440
uh so then you know I was curious to

364
00:16:31,249 --> 00:16:28,380
find out some more about Richard's life

365
00:16:32,689 --> 00:16:31,259
um and I slowly pieced it together over

366
00:16:35,329 --> 00:16:32,699
years really

367
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:35,339
but uh Richard was born in Zanesville

368
00:16:43,249 --> 00:16:39,120
Ohio uh that's where he was raised uh he

369
00:16:47,329 --> 00:16:43,259
was a single child his parents were very

370
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:47,339
heavy into Evangelical Christianity

371
00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:48,839
and

372
00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:52,680
um they were uh they had a lot they had

373
00:16:56,569 --> 00:16:54,899
some issues his father was abusive to

374
00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:56,579
him

375
00:17:00,889 --> 00:16:58,680
um he had a very bad temper so he was

376
00:17:03,290 --> 00:17:00,899
abusive to him and his mother

377
00:17:05,329 --> 00:17:03,300
so he didn't have a good relationship

378
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:05,339
with his father he had a great

379
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,919
relationship with his mother

380
00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:09,600
um and towards the end of his father's

381
00:17:14,689 --> 00:17:12,780
life you know they kind of made amends

382
00:17:16,909 --> 00:17:14,699
with each other a little bit

383
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:16,919
so because there was a lot of fighting

384
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:20,400
inside of his household I think that he

385
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:24,120
uh his escapism was comic books he

386
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:27,360
became just kind of obsessed with with

387
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,240
comic books and and superheroes and of

388
00:17:35,690 --> 00:17:32,400
course at this time that he's growing up

389
00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:35,700
in in the late 60s early 70s there was

390
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,380
no internet

391
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:39,360
um there wasn't really video games I

392
00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:42,480
mean I guess he could play Pong uh but

393
00:17:48,169 --> 00:17:44,900
so he needed something to escape into

394
00:17:50,029 --> 00:17:48,179
and comic books were kind of a cheap

395
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:50,039
easy solution for that

396
00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:53,039
but I just think that's where a lot of

397
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:55,260
these things that would affect him later

398
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:58,080
in his life started was

399
00:18:02,630 --> 00:17:59,460
um being so

400
00:18:04,370 --> 00:18:02,640
immersed in this comic book world he

401
00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:04,380
started reading every comic book he

402
00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:06,840
could find and one thing that he kind of

403
00:18:13,610 --> 00:18:10,140
bonded with his mother over was she

404
00:18:16,610 --> 00:18:13,620
loved to sew so she would make him these

405
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:16,620
really nice costumes for local parades

406
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:18,780
and and costume parties and stuff like

407
00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:22,080
that she made him a Batman costume when

408
00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:23,400
he was young

409
00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:26,460
and he really had this Vision that he

410
00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:29,220
wanted to actually be a superhero

411
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:32,280
so when he got out of high school his

412
00:18:36,169 --> 00:18:34,260
dad was kind of like you're 18 you need

413
00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:36,179
to get out of the house right now

414
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:38,940
so he joined the Marines and he viewed

415
00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:41,460
that as sort of a superhero training

416
00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:43,380
school

417
00:18:48,590 --> 00:18:45,720
um and then when he got out of the

418
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:48,600
Marines uh this is when as you said he

419
00:18:54,110 --> 00:18:51,360
became very aimless he had these sort of

420
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:54,120
dreams that he was maybe going to be a

421
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:57,840
stunt man or a Hollywood action star so

422
00:19:02,090 --> 00:18:59,520
he actually went out to a stuntman

423
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,100
School in California and

424
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,080
um it was a it sounds like a very

425
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:06,480
colorful stunt man training that he went

426
00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:08,760
through I was by an interesting guy

427
00:19:14,029 --> 00:19:11,700
named Kim Kahana who's kind of a legend

428
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:14,039
in his own right

429
00:19:18,289 --> 00:19:16,320
um but he had a lot of trouble finding

430
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:18,299
work he kind of kicked around Hollywood

431
00:19:26,090 --> 00:19:23,820
for a while uh trying to find jobs but

432
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:26,100
um as his friend Lon who he met in

433
00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:28,380
stuntman School said he didn't really

434
00:19:33,049 --> 00:19:31,620
have the social skills you know like if

435
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:33,059
you're gonna break into Hollywood you

436
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:34,799
got to be out there like talking to

437
00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:36,960
people all the time making connections

438
00:19:43,370 --> 00:19:40,140
right exactly and that uh wasn't really

439
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:43,380
his strong suit at all so he just kind

440
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:47,220
of drifted and drifted uh working odd

441
00:19:53,090 --> 00:19:50,460
jobs as a delivery driver he attempted

442
00:19:54,529 --> 00:19:53,100
to go to a wrestling school at one point

443
00:19:57,529 --> 00:19:54,539
because he thought maybe he could be

444
00:19:58,190 --> 00:19:57,539
like a pro wrestler

445
00:19:59,570 --> 00:19:58,200
um

446
00:20:03,710 --> 00:19:59,580
and

447
00:20:05,810 --> 00:20:03,720
then his life kind of uh dumped on him

448
00:20:10,010 --> 00:20:05,820
pretty bad he went through a really bad

449
00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:10,020
stretch where in the late 90s uh roughly

450
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:13,500
from about like 1998 to 2000

451
00:20:18,409 --> 00:20:16,799
uh he just had this long string of bad

452
00:20:19,730 --> 00:20:18,419
things that happened uh both of his

453
00:20:22,430 --> 00:20:19,740
parents died

454
00:20:23,810 --> 00:20:22,440
and that was really hard for him to deal

455
00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:23,820
with

456
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:26,700
um you know his mom died or his his

457
00:20:30,770 --> 00:20:28,140
father died and then his mom died

458
00:20:34,430 --> 00:20:30,780
shortly after that they left him a

459
00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:34,440
pretty sizable inheritance but uh he

460
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,120
didn't really have anything to do with

461
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:38,400
the money because he hadn't really

462
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:41,700
pursued a career seriously he had tried

463
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:44,400
to do some creative Endeavors and they

464
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:47,039
kind of fell apart on him uh and I think

465
00:20:52,669 --> 00:20:49,980
that was very frustrating to him

466
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:52,679
um he had this strange idea about a

467
00:20:58,130 --> 00:20:55,679
relationship that he tried to pursue and

468
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:58,140
with a country music star right yeah

469
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:01,679
right not mistaken okay and it just all

470
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:05,700
like wasn't working out and I I imagine

471
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:09,600
he was feeling just terrible and and you

472
00:21:14,570 --> 00:21:12,960
know sort of helpless and had nothing to

473
00:21:16,909 --> 00:21:14,580
turn to he didn't have a lot of friends

474
00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:16,919
at that time uh he had met his friend

475
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:18,900
Lon and stunt school but other than that

476
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:21,600
he didn't have a lot of good friends so

477
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:24,240
he had no support network or nothing to

478
00:21:28,730 --> 00:21:26,039
sort of distract him

479
00:21:30,649 --> 00:21:28,740
and he's sitting around uh in his

480
00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:30,659
apartment he had moved to Austin Texas

481
00:21:35,870 --> 00:21:32,820
at by that point

482
00:21:39,169 --> 00:21:35,880
so he's sitting around uh you know

483
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:39,179
probably stewing on his couch and he

484
00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:42,720
turns on Austin cable access

485
00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:45,720
and that's where he sees a documentary

486
00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:50,220
quotes about the Bohemian Grove uh that

487
00:21:54,409 --> 00:21:52,020
was produced by a guy who's pretty well

488
00:21:57,529 --> 00:21:54,419
known these days but at the time he was

489
00:22:00,350 --> 00:21:57,539
kind of an obscure figure Alex Jones he

490
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:00,360
sees this documentary and and Alex Jones

491
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,120
in this documentary puts forward that

492
00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:05,760
idea that they are doing Satanic rituals

493
00:22:11,149 --> 00:22:09,059
in the Bohemian Grove and uh who knows

494
00:22:12,529 --> 00:22:11,159
folks they might be sacrificing live

495
00:22:16,130 --> 00:22:12,539
babies

496
00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:16,140
and and stuff like that and it kind of

497
00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:19,260
just snaps into his head that this is

498
00:22:24,529 --> 00:22:22,140
this is wrong and uh you know this

499
00:22:27,049 --> 00:22:24,539
sounds like it's a documentary so it's

500
00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:27,059
true and this is going to be my mission

501
00:22:33,649 --> 00:22:30,780
I'm gonna suit up as a superhero get a

502
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,659
bunch of weapons and raid this Bohemian

503
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:35,760
Grove place so I can help these people

504
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:38,480
out that are going to be sacrificed

505
00:22:45,289 --> 00:22:42,240
uh and and so he eventually decides that

506
00:22:48,049 --> 00:22:45,299
he's going to do that and um

507
00:22:49,070 --> 00:22:48,059
uh he go he drives up to the Bohemian

508
00:22:51,610 --> 00:22:49,080
Grove

509
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,620
um he moved from Austin to Carson City

510
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:53,760
uh Nevada

511
00:22:59,210 --> 00:22:56,400
and he just kind of sat in an apartment

512
00:23:00,529 --> 00:22:59,220
there for about a month planning this

513
00:23:03,770 --> 00:23:00,539
raid

514
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:03,780
and yeah and I know like

515
00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:07,919
we're seeing like the birth of this kind

516
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:11,340
of uh new Richard I guess it was like a

517
00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:14,159
uh a baptism of sorts and it starts with

518
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:17,580
Alex Jones of course so um yeah I guess

519
00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:19,500
you know I guess without too much detail

520
00:23:23,090 --> 00:23:21,179
I definitely want people to read the

521
00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:23,100
book but yeah tell us about his

522
00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:26,100
Adventure at the Grove finally he uh you

523
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,900
know he suits up in that costume you see

524
00:23:31,789 --> 00:23:30,240
in your uh your background there and

525
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:31,799
I've got the book right here it's pretty

526
00:23:36,110 --> 00:23:34,260
scary man if I saw that dude out and

527
00:23:37,210 --> 00:23:36,120
about I would not mess with him so yeah

528
00:23:42,830 --> 00:23:37,220
yeah

529
00:23:45,769 --> 00:23:42,840
was a very much a misadventure it did

530
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:45,779
not go at all how he envisions in his

531
00:23:50,510 --> 00:23:48,720
mind I think in his mind he thought that

532
00:23:52,610 --> 00:23:50,520
he would um

533
00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:52,620
he would sneak into the Grove at night

534
00:23:58,730 --> 00:23:56,000
and he would find a group of uh you know

535
00:24:01,850 --> 00:23:58,740
politicians and and other powerful men

536
00:24:04,909 --> 00:24:01,860
who were literally doing a satanic

537
00:24:08,510 --> 00:24:04,919
sacrifice and that he would uh stop them

538
00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:08,520
from doing this and and save whoever was

539
00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:11,940
you know being sacrificed and and then

540
00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:14,520
you know the media and the police would

541
00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:16,860
roll in and the Bohemian Grove would be

542
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,740
busted wide open and he would be like a

543
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:22,080
an actual superhero

544
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:24,720
uh but that's not what happened at all

545
00:24:30,409 --> 00:24:28,080
um he kind of got lost in the Grove uh

546
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:30,419
he ended up staying overnight in a cabin

547
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:33,360
that he'd broken into and when the sun

548
00:24:40,490 --> 00:24:36,720
rose he started walking around he came

549
00:24:43,149 --> 00:24:40,500
face to face with the uh the great owl

550
00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:43,159
of bohemia is the name of the statue

551
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:45,960
which is supposedly Malik

552
00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:49,200
and he thought that the statue was made

553
00:24:53,390 --> 00:24:50,700
out of wood

554
00:24:56,690 --> 00:24:53,400
um like carved out of a redwood tree but

555
00:25:00,350 --> 00:24:56,700
it was made out of stone so his his goal

556
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:00,360
was to set it on fire uh but he couldn't

557
00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:03,600
so he started a nearby mess hall on fire

558
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:06,600
instead because he was like I got I want

559
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:09,840
to do some damage while I'm in here

560
00:25:15,289 --> 00:25:12,600
um that tripped a fire alarm

561
00:25:17,149 --> 00:25:15,299
and he very soon found himself having an

562
00:25:19,490 --> 00:25:17,159
armed standoff with

563
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:19,500
um Four sedoma County Sheriff's

564
00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:22,740
Department uh officers and he was very

565
00:25:27,409 --> 00:25:25,080
close to dying

566
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:27,419
um and in fact he was kind of weighing

567
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:30,080
it over in his mind whether he wanted to

568
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:32,820
engage or Surrender

569
00:25:38,330 --> 00:25:36,240
and kind of the last second he decided

570
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:38,340
that he was he was going to surrender to

571
00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:41,279
the police uh they arrested him

572
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:44,460
and uh he spent the next roughly six and

573
00:25:47,810 --> 00:25:46,080
a half years

574
00:25:50,690 --> 00:25:47,820
in jail

575
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:50,700
um and then was out on parole after that

576
00:25:54,590 --> 00:25:52,500
for a couple years

577
00:25:56,810 --> 00:25:54,600
and then after that you know he was kind

578
00:26:00,350 --> 00:25:56,820
of I actually started corresponding him

579
00:26:04,370 --> 00:26:00,360
with him while he was still on parole so

580
00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:04,380
he you know couldn't leave uh Redwood

581
00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:06,500
City is where he was doing his parole

582
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,240
also I want to point this out I I

583
00:26:15,230 --> 00:26:11,120
haven't done this in interviews before

584
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:15,240
one of the things I love is I got to see

585
00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:17,700
um a piece of paperwork that listed his

586
00:26:22,850 --> 00:26:19,860
parole stipulations

587
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:22,860
uh and they were he couldn't be within

588
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,700
like 15 miles of the Bohemian Grove in

589
00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:28,320
in Northern California

590
00:26:33,890 --> 00:26:30,779
he couldn't be within one-fourth of a

591
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:33,900
mile of the Bohemian Club clubhouse in

592
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:36,000
downtown San Francisco

593
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,659
and I love this this Clause uh he could

594
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:42,240
not own costumes was part of his parole

595
00:26:46,970 --> 00:26:44,480
oh no

596
00:26:49,370 --> 00:26:46,980
yeah that's the that's the one they

597
00:26:52,850 --> 00:26:49,380
should be worried about is the owning

598
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:52,860
costumes and not trying to uh get back

599
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:54,179
in the Grove

600
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:56,700
that's pretty funny I like that I've

601
00:27:01,490 --> 00:26:59,279
never seen it on on as a parole

602
00:27:03,289 --> 00:27:01,500
stipulation before so yeah yeah that's

603
00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:03,299
got to be a first for sure

604
00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:05,580
um well yeah so he spends this time in

605
00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:08,340
jail which again is just crazy and um

606
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,640
kind of the reason he didn't uh you know

607
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:13,919
open fire or do anything with these cops

608
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,960
is because of this person he was

609
00:27:20,510 --> 00:27:17,760
obsessed with again we'll leave that for

610
00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:20,520
the reader to follow that Journey that

611
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:21,960
path in the book because it's very

612
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:24,960
fascinating as well but um

613
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,260
so we have to talk about your uh your

614
00:27:32,389 --> 00:27:30,720
interactions for this guy I mean again

615
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:32,399
you're not one of these writers who just

616
00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:34,799
you know says all right just gonna

617
00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:37,140
interview this person over email or text

618
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:40,140
and call it a day like you met up with

619
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:43,080
him you got to know him and that's what

620
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:45,120
makes him so human in your book where it

621
00:27:50,269 --> 00:27:48,000
would be easy to see the you know the

622
00:27:53,210 --> 00:27:50,279
guy in the photo of your book and laugh

623
00:27:55,310 --> 00:27:53,220
at this crazy Journey he went on but I

624
00:27:57,049 --> 00:27:55,320
there's a person there and there's a

625
00:27:58,730 --> 00:27:57,059
story and there's a reason that

626
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,740
everything led up to him

627
00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:00,960
following what Alex Jones had to say

628
00:28:05,450 --> 00:28:02,820
trying to light this place on fire

629
00:28:08,330 --> 00:28:05,460
trying to save Humanity

630
00:28:11,330 --> 00:28:08,340
um so what was it like meeting Richard

631
00:28:13,070 --> 00:28:11,340
for the first time I can't imagine if I

632
00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:13,080
were to go to meet someone this deep

633
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:15,240
into conspiracy theory I'd be a little

634
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:17,039
nervous I'm not gonna lie so yeah what

635
00:28:23,330 --> 00:28:20,100
was that experience like yeah

636
00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:23,340
um so I was corresponding with him and

637
00:28:28,669 --> 00:28:25,380
one thing that was really great by the

638
00:28:30,889 --> 00:28:28,679
way was uh when he first contacted me it

639
00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:30,899
was uh it was by email

640
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:32,820
but he was like you know what I don't

641
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:35,760
like using email at all because uh the

642
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,919
CIA and the FBI and everyone is

643
00:28:41,930 --> 00:28:39,360
monitoring me

644
00:28:44,090 --> 00:28:41,940
and I I'm I'm sure I know that he was on

645
00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:44,100
like some watch lists and stuff so he

646
00:28:49,850 --> 00:28:45,960
might not have been entirely wrong about

647
00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:49,860
that so for probably like the first year

648
00:28:53,930 --> 00:28:52,020
that I knew him we corresponded by

649
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:53,940
writing each other in letters

650
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:56,159
which was just so

651
00:28:59,810 --> 00:28:56,880
um

652
00:29:02,210 --> 00:28:59,820
it was really cool because uh I was like

653
00:29:04,850 --> 00:29:02,220
wow I haven't written a letter with a

654
00:29:08,029 --> 00:29:04,860
piece of paper and a pen for a long time

655
00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:08,039
so um you know I would ask him some

656
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:10,860
questions by letter and a week or two

657
00:29:15,409 --> 00:29:13,440
later I would get this uh package that

658
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:15,419
would have like a 16 Page Letter

659
00:29:18,649 --> 00:29:16,799
response

660
00:29:20,029 --> 00:29:18,659
uh and he answered a lot of my questions

661
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:20,039
that way

662
00:29:24,649 --> 00:29:23,760
but then as his parole was uh wrapping

663
00:29:26,210 --> 00:29:24,659
up

664
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,220
he said

665
00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:28,799
um you know I'm finally free what I want

666
00:29:36,769 --> 00:29:33,779
to do is I want to take a 48 state tour

667
00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:36,779
uh and I'm going to Stage a peaceful

668
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:40,740
protest in each state

669
00:29:46,250 --> 00:29:43,500
um you know and uh he adopted a new

670
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:46,260
superhero persona for this tour that was

671
00:29:54,590 --> 00:29:52,430
um and he sent me his itinerary and he's

672
00:29:57,529 --> 00:29:54,600
like yeah you know I'm gonna go to San

673
00:29:59,389 --> 00:29:57,539
Francisco and protest uh by the Bohemian

674
00:30:02,269 --> 00:29:59,399
Club and then I'm gonna go over to the

675
00:30:04,909 --> 00:30:02,279
the Golden Gate Bridge and uh I'm gonna

676
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:04,919
go to Vegas and I'm gonna protest on the

677
00:30:10,430 --> 00:30:06,600
Strip you know

678
00:30:12,110 --> 00:30:10,440
uh I was like wow this is uh the

679
00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:12,120
strangest road trip Adventurer I've

680
00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:13,500
heard of

681
00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:15,240
um but you said you know I'm coming to

682
00:30:18,529 --> 00:30:17,460
Wisconsin uh which I live here in

683
00:30:20,450 --> 00:30:18,539
Milwaukee

684
00:30:23,450 --> 00:30:20,460
and he was like

685
00:30:24,769 --> 00:30:23,460
I'd love to to meet you while I'm in in

686
00:30:27,529 --> 00:30:24,779
Milwaukee

687
00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:27,539
and I said yeah of course of course so

688
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:31,740
this was in July of 2011. uh he showed

689
00:30:36,889 --> 00:30:34,260
up in Milwaukee and I went downtown to

690
00:30:38,210 --> 00:30:36,899
meet him which was a weird experience

691
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:38,220
it's always kind of weird meeting

692
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,200
someone in person

693
00:30:45,769 --> 00:30:42,240
um especially if they're wearing a a

694
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:45,779
superhero costume out in public but he

695
00:30:53,049 --> 00:30:49,440
was really nice I really like talking to

696
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:53,059
him uh he didn't seem like some crazy

697
00:31:00,590 --> 00:30:56,640
kooky guy like muttering to himself and

698
00:31:02,389 --> 00:31:00,600
or whatever he's very well spoken and I

699
00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:02,399
think that's an important part of the

700
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:05,880
story too like he wasn't stupid uh he

701
00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:08,640
had read a lot about American history

702
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,140
and

703
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:12,480
um you know he was very creative person

704
00:31:17,389 --> 00:31:15,120
that had artistic abilities

705
00:31:20,029 --> 00:31:17,399
so I met him I was like I got along with

706
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:20,039
him really well and uh he did a protest

707
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:23,460
March walking around downtown Milwaukee

708
00:31:29,570 --> 00:31:26,640
and uh and and this was a clue by the

709
00:31:32,690 --> 00:31:29,580
way that Richard wasn't alone we were

710
00:31:35,389 --> 00:31:32,700
walking by a hot dog stand vendor

711
00:31:37,370 --> 00:31:35,399
and this guy sees him he's like hey man

712
00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:37,380
I love this costume he's like hey are

713
00:31:42,409 --> 00:31:40,620
you into Alex Jones and and Richard was

714
00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:42,419
like well yeah it used to be he's like

715
00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:45,480
are you into uh David Ike and he's like

716
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:47,700
yeah yeah I love him he's like all right

717
00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:50,880
man free hot dog on the house I was like

718
00:31:55,009 --> 00:31:53,460
wow this this hot dog Bender is a total

719
00:31:58,490 --> 00:31:55,019
conspiracy believer I never would have

720
00:32:00,769 --> 00:31:58,500
guessed that you know yeah yeah and uh

721
00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:00,779
so I I walked around with him there in

722
00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:03,960
Milwaukee and um I met up with him the

723
00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:05,820
next day we went down to Chicago because

724
00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:07,260
he wanted to

725
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:10,440
stage a sort of uh cringe-worthy protest

726
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:12,960
in O'Hare Airport

727
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,820
um so I went with him and it was

728
00:32:18,830 --> 00:32:16,559
nerve-wracking because we walked in and

729
00:32:21,230 --> 00:32:18,840
immediately I saw security guards like

730
00:32:23,389 --> 00:32:21,240
in every corner of the room talking on

731
00:32:25,130 --> 00:32:23,399
their walkie-talkies and I was like oh

732
00:32:26,570 --> 00:32:25,140
we're gonna we're gonna get arrested

733
00:32:28,610 --> 00:32:26,580
here for sure

734
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:28,620
but they didn't they didn't move on him

735
00:32:35,389 --> 00:32:32,460
and um he drove off and continued on to

736
00:32:38,029 --> 00:32:35,399
uh Indiana or wherever he was going to

737
00:32:41,450 --> 00:32:38,039
complete the rest of his his tour

738
00:32:43,070 --> 00:32:41,460
and I was like Wow uh and then I ended

739
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,080
up meeting him two other times after

740
00:32:48,889 --> 00:32:45,840
that and each one was a

741
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:48,899
an experience right I know

742
00:32:54,049 --> 00:32:51,360
um you know he would go on to

743
00:32:56,570 --> 00:32:54,059
to do these videos with um with his

744
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,580
characters that he kind of created and

745
00:33:01,009 --> 00:32:59,039
the conspiracy theories behind them and

746
00:33:03,649 --> 00:33:01,019
I know you were a part of that I gotta

747
00:33:05,690 --> 00:33:03,659
know how that was but um

748
00:33:07,730 --> 00:33:05,700
and you mentioned the name David Ike we

749
00:33:08,509 --> 00:33:07,740
might as well just touch on that right

750
00:33:12,769 --> 00:33:08,519
now

751
00:33:14,210 --> 00:33:12,779
um he became kind of like the the way in

752
00:33:16,909 --> 00:33:14,220
which

753
00:33:19,009 --> 00:33:16,919
um Richard saw the world at that point

754
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:19,019
he started with what a lot of people do

755
00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:22,080
Alex Jones or you know these YouTubers

756
00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:24,600
who at this point a lot of them don't

757
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,240
even really exist anymore because of

758
00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:29,519
de-platforming and and stuff like that

759
00:33:36,169 --> 00:33:32,460
which is another issue we'll get to but

760
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:36,179
um the one thing about Ike that really

761
00:33:40,430 --> 00:33:38,460
caught my attention was um

762
00:33:42,889 --> 00:33:40,440
you know Richard started believing in

763
00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:42,899
this whole reptilian thing which is huge

764
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:45,659
in the UFO field so um yeah what do you

765
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:47,700
think it is that he started gravitating

766
00:33:52,669 --> 00:33:50,700
uh leaving what Alex Jones had to say

767
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:52,679
and moving to this other you know

768
00:33:58,850 --> 00:33:55,919
conspiracy Guru as we call them and uh

769
00:34:02,330 --> 00:33:58,860
believing this I would say much more

770
00:34:05,330 --> 00:34:02,340
ridiculous kind of reality than what

771
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,340
Alex Jones was saying yeah

772
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,919
so um I think we'll talk a little bit

773
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:10,800
about this later too but uh Alex Jones

774
00:34:17,329 --> 00:34:14,399
uh after Richard was caught and you know

775
00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:17,339
he's awaiting trial

776
00:34:22,129 --> 00:34:19,859
um Richard had a public defender who

777
00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:22,139
represented him uh and I got to do an

778
00:34:26,930 --> 00:34:23,940
interview with him too his name's Jeff

779
00:34:30,770 --> 00:34:26,940
Mitchell a very interesting guy

780
00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:30,780
um so Jeff attempted to contact Alex

781
00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:33,720
Jones because he was like maybe he can

782
00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:35,820
help me with this case in in some way

783
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:37,980
like you know he could have Richard's

784
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:40,020
back in some way try to provide

785
00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:42,960
information as to why uh he would be

786
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:45,179
motivated there

787
00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:47,520
um and the the story didn't get picked

788
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:49,800
up by a lot of media but it was covered

789
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:52,260
in some newspapers in Northern

790
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:53,460
California

791
00:35:00,589 --> 00:34:56,639
and they also attempted to contact Alex

792
00:35:02,990 --> 00:35:00,599
Jones and to get a comment on the story

793
00:35:04,910 --> 00:35:03,000
and Alex Jones was like this guy sounds

794
00:35:07,010 --> 00:35:04,920
crazy I have no idea why he would do

795
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:07,020
that don't talk to me I'm not going to

796
00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:08,880
participate in any way

797
00:35:14,750 --> 00:35:11,820
so obviously Richard felt very betrayed

798
00:35:19,730 --> 00:35:14,760
that this person who had inspired him so

799
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:19,740
much uh offered him zero support at all

800
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,140
and so I think he was looking for

801
00:35:28,069 --> 00:35:24,960
someone to replace Alex Jones

802
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:28,079
and he happened upon the work of of

803
00:35:32,750 --> 00:35:31,920
David Ike and completely uh dived into

804
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:32,760
it

805
00:35:38,810 --> 00:35:36,180
he went to go see one of uh David Ike's

806
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:38,820
lectures which by the way lasts about

807
00:35:45,970 --> 00:35:42,240
nine and a half hours long that's one

808
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:45,980
dude I can barely do like 45 minutes

809
00:35:53,150 --> 00:35:50,160
I know I know I was like I don't see how

810
00:35:55,010 --> 00:35:53,160
it's possible but he went and attended

811
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:55,020
the entire nine and a half hour long

812
00:36:00,050 --> 00:35:57,119
lecture

813
00:36:03,530 --> 00:36:00,060
um and this is what I found to be so

814
00:36:05,450 --> 00:36:03,540
crazy about the story Richard uh when he

815
00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:05,460
went into the Grove

816
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:09,180
um part of his motivation I would say is

817
00:36:14,930 --> 00:36:12,720
that he was very much into Christianity

818
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:14,940
um you know he quote a lot of Bible

819
00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:18,480
verses as being his inspiration for you

820
00:36:22,970 --> 00:36:20,820
know the the law of God being Above the

821
00:36:23,870 --> 00:36:22,980
Law of man and that's why he had raided

822
00:36:26,329 --> 00:36:23,880
the place

823
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,339
uh and then while he was in prison he

824
00:36:32,210 --> 00:36:28,800
converted to be a Jehovah's Witness

825
00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:32,220
uh but he gets out he starts reading the

826
00:36:36,890 --> 00:36:34,740
work of David Ike and he completely

827
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:36,900
abandons religion entirely

828
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:39,839
because he's so inspired by his work

829
00:36:46,010 --> 00:36:43,920
uh and he um this was I had not really

830
00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:46,020
heard of reptilians I'd kinda I had

831
00:36:50,270 --> 00:36:47,700
heard something about them

832
00:36:53,930 --> 00:36:50,280
but probably in the second or third

833
00:36:57,170 --> 00:36:53,940
letter that he wrote to me he mentioned

834
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:57,180
something about a reptilian agenda

835
00:37:02,329 --> 00:36:59,760
and I said uh could you tell me more

836
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:02,339
about that and and boy did he because

837
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:05,280
the next letter I got was like a 20-page

838
00:37:11,210 --> 00:37:09,300
explanation of reptilians and how the

839
00:37:14,030 --> 00:37:11,220
Earth is hollow and there's a reptilian

840
00:37:16,849 --> 00:37:14,040
base inside of it and the Moon is like a

841
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:16,859
reptilian spacecraft and they're

842
00:37:20,690 --> 00:37:20,040
disguised as world leaders

843
00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:20,700
um

844
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:22,140
and

845
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:25,440
so this was uh such an alarm Bell to me

846
00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:28,800
the Nashville bombing happened on

847
00:37:34,910 --> 00:37:32,040
Christmas uh which was just so shocking

848
00:37:37,609 --> 00:37:34,920
right this RV explodes

849
00:37:39,770 --> 00:37:37,619
and but he was warning people to stay

850
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:39,780
away and I had a hunch that turned out

851
00:37:44,690 --> 00:37:41,760
to be right on this I was like I bet

852
00:37:46,609 --> 00:37:44,700
this guy is into some conspiracy stuff

853
00:37:49,370 --> 00:37:46,619
because he's not randomly trying to kill

854
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:49,380
people uh it seemed like he was

855
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:52,800
targeting that a T Center but he had

856
00:37:57,410 --> 00:37:55,140
this IG thing right yeah yeah and he had

857
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:57,420
this loudspeaker warning people to to

858
00:38:00,290 --> 00:37:58,560
stay away

859
00:38:02,930 --> 00:38:00,300
so I was like there's gotta be some

860
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:02,940
conspiracy stuff going on here and sure

861
00:38:09,170 --> 00:38:06,060
enough uh uh before

862
00:38:11,329 --> 00:38:09,180
he died in that suicide bombing he had

863
00:38:13,730 --> 00:38:11,339
mailed out some packages to some

864
00:38:16,609 --> 00:38:13,740
different people he knew and in them was

865
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:16,619
a lot of stuff about reptilians and and

866
00:38:21,970 --> 00:38:19,200
other aliens and uh

867
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:21,980
a bunch of other conspiracy theories so

868
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:25,920
here's a guy who looks like he had some

869
00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:28,320
similarities to Richard

870
00:38:33,410 --> 00:38:31,140
right yeah and I will see that kind of

871
00:38:35,089 --> 00:38:33,420
play through a lot of these things

872
00:38:37,310 --> 00:38:35,099
um I believe you covered in the book and

873
00:38:38,750 --> 00:38:37,320
I remember reading in the news about a

874
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:38,760
couple who also believed in The

875
00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:41,760
Reptilian thing and ended up murdering

876
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,040
the other one because they were they

877
00:38:48,829 --> 00:38:46,079
were a reptilian um again like these

878
00:38:51,290 --> 00:38:48,839
details in your book are so rich and um

879
00:38:55,069 --> 00:38:51,300
I I don't want to give everything away

880
00:38:59,089 --> 00:38:55,079
but um I guess you know now he's all In

881
00:39:02,089 --> 00:38:59,099
Like Richard has created this new

882
00:39:03,170 --> 00:39:02,099
reality in which kind of everyone's the

883
00:39:05,329 --> 00:39:03,180
enemy

884
00:39:07,970 --> 00:39:05,339
um which is interesting too because this

885
00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:07,980
is a guy just looking for acceptance and

886
00:39:12,770 --> 00:39:09,839
looking for a connection with other

887
00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:12,780
human beings yet everyone is kind of the

888
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,440
enemy it's such a weird perverse way of

889
00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:19,440
um of living your life but uh that's

890
00:39:23,390 --> 00:39:21,060
kind of how it is for people who get

891
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:23,400
involved in these heavy conspiracy

892
00:39:28,250 --> 00:39:25,920
theories and um I think the other thing

893
00:39:30,770 --> 00:39:28,260
that really hit me was uh when you talk

894
00:39:33,470 --> 00:39:30,780
talked about when you went with him to

895
00:39:35,870 --> 00:39:33,480
the Bohemian Club in San Francisco and

896
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:35,880
he he finally had his moment to be

897
00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:38,880
outside of the club and give that that

898
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:42,300
famous you know speech to at least to

899
00:39:48,109 --> 00:39:45,000
him famous right and um he got pretty

900
00:39:49,790 --> 00:39:48,119
choked up and I remember you you you put

901
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:49,800
the speech in your book you can find it

902
00:39:54,410 --> 00:39:52,380
on YouTube and uh I really fell for him

903
00:39:56,329 --> 00:39:54,420
in that moment because he wasn't alone

904
00:39:58,010 --> 00:39:56,339
in that moment you were there he had

905
00:40:02,510 --> 00:39:58,020
other people supporting him and I think

906
00:40:07,069 --> 00:40:05,030
my name is t Carlos and I'm a journalist

907
00:40:11,089 --> 00:40:07,079
I'm here in front of the Bohemian club

908
00:40:14,210 --> 00:40:11,099
with Richard McCaslin who has returned

909
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:14,220
once again as a phantom Patriot is going

910
00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:21,130
my name is Richard McCaslin

911
00:40:26,650 --> 00:40:25,020
10 years ago I was arrested outside the

912
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:26,660
Bohemian Grove

913
00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:30,720
my goal was to expose the Bohemians

914
00:40:37,849 --> 00:40:34,140
crimes and ahead of

915
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:37,859
torture murder and phrase it against the

916
00:40:48,349 --> 00:40:46,190
2002 I failed to convince a jury that

917
00:40:52,010 --> 00:40:48,359
these atrocities were occurring because

918
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:55,190
don't let these cold-blooded reptiles

919
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:07,270
2002 I was alone we

920
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:09,109
bastards

921
00:41:15,950 --> 00:41:12,240
today I stand here with the Pacific

922
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:15,960
protectorate and I Ask America all

923
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:19,140
Americans to do the same thing

924
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:25,370
so um what was that experience like at

925
00:41:31,069 --> 00:41:28,560
the Bohemian Club and uh now you are in

926
00:41:33,950 --> 00:41:31,079
man like he put you he made you

927
00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:33,960
introduce him and the speech and

928
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,579
everything so what was that experience

929
00:41:39,410 --> 00:41:37,440
like and what'd you take away from it

930
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,420
when he kind of got pretty emotional

931
00:41:43,370 --> 00:41:41,760
with it all it was a it was a crazy

932
00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:43,380
weekend for sure

933
00:41:47,690 --> 00:41:43,980
um

934
00:41:50,510 --> 00:41:47,700
he uh so in 2012

935
00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:50,520
um he uh had switched back to email by

936
00:41:53,329 --> 00:41:51,540
this point

937
00:41:55,849 --> 00:41:53,339
um when he was on tour

938
00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:55,859
he decided that he was he was okay using

939
00:42:02,990 --> 00:41:57,900
email again so he sent me an email and

940
00:42:05,569 --> 00:42:03,000
he said you know January 20th uh 2012 is

941
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:05,579
going to be the 10-year anniversary of

942
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:08,880
the date that I rated the Bohemian Grove

943
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:11,760
so what I want to do is dress up as a

944
00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:13,560
phantom Patriot again

945
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:18,060
and I'm going to March to the Bohemian

946
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:21,359
Club in downtown San Francisco uh and

947
00:42:25,010 --> 00:42:23,760
I'm gonna stand out front and read a

948
00:42:27,170 --> 00:42:25,020
speech

949
00:42:31,490 --> 00:42:27,180
and I want you to be there

950
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:31,500
uh Al's like okay I'll I'll do it you

951
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:34,560
know I'm gonna fly out to San Francisco

952
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:38,160
uh he had made a connection within the

953
00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:40,800
real life superhero Community

954
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:43,260
um I should note that at first the the

955
00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:45,660
real life superheroes didn't want to

956
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,060
have anything to do with this guy like

957
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:49,920
they were like this guy sounds

958
00:42:54,890 --> 00:42:51,839
completely crazy he sounds like he's

959
00:42:56,809 --> 00:42:54,900
potentially dangerous like we don't want

960
00:42:59,150 --> 00:42:56,819
him part of our

961
00:43:01,849 --> 00:42:59,160
uh movement or subculture or whatever

962
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:01,859
you want to call it but he had made a

963
00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:03,839
connection there was

964
00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:05,700
um a real life superhero from San

965
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,000
Francisco who's known as motor mouth

966
00:43:14,089 --> 00:43:11,760
and that is because this dude cannot

967
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:14,099
stop talking you know this talks his

968
00:43:19,490 --> 00:43:16,920
entire stream of Consciousness Non-Stop

969
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:19,500
uh and as it turns out he was sort of a

970
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:21,599
conspiracy believer himself

971
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:24,960
so he um he liked Richard he liked this

972
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:27,599
idea of meeting Richard and he was like

973
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:29,880
well he's not wrong you know I I agree

974
00:43:34,730 --> 00:43:32,400
with some of the stuff that he says and

975
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:34,740
then he also roped in one of his team

976
00:43:40,670 --> 00:43:38,160
members named mutinous Angel who I don't

977
00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:40,680
think had any idea what was going on

978
00:43:46,609 --> 00:43:43,500
so um the two of them met me and Richard

979
00:43:48,410 --> 00:43:46,619
uh we had a camera person with him who

980
00:43:49,849 --> 00:43:48,420
was a friend of a friend who lives in

981
00:43:52,609 --> 00:43:49,859
San Francisco

982
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:52,619
uh we walked up to the Bohemian Club and

983
00:43:59,050 --> 00:43:55,680
he read the speech and he he got off his

984
00:44:02,809 --> 00:43:59,060
chest you know he uh accused the

985
00:44:05,690 --> 00:44:02,819
Bohemian Club of doing these rituals in

986
00:44:08,569 --> 00:44:05,700
the Grove he read an excerpt from a book

987
00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:08,579
that was very influential on him called

988
00:44:15,530 --> 00:44:12,900
transformation of America which is this

989
00:44:18,130 --> 00:44:15,540
very strange account

990
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:18,140
um by a woman named Kathy O'Brien

991
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:21,540
uh he read that and

992
00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:24,720
he was just so glad that there he wasn't

993
00:44:27,770 --> 00:44:25,740
alone

994
00:44:29,690 --> 00:44:27,780
that there was at least

995
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:29,700
um you know a few other people with him

996
00:44:33,230 --> 00:44:31,680
and some people stopped they were

997
00:44:35,210 --> 00:44:33,240
walking on the street and they kind of

998
00:44:37,550 --> 00:44:35,220
just stopped and pulled out their their

999
00:44:39,410 --> 00:44:37,560
cameras like people do so he had a

1000
00:44:41,690 --> 00:44:39,420
little a little audience not a big

1001
00:44:44,089 --> 00:44:41,700
audience but he at least had a few

1002
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:44,099
people who were listening to him

1003
00:44:48,530 --> 00:44:46,560
and when he was done with the speech he

1004
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:48,540
just kind of broke down a little bit and

1005
00:44:52,370 --> 00:44:50,160
he was like this is all that I wanted

1006
00:44:54,349 --> 00:44:52,380
for the last 10 years

1007
00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:54,359
and he was like don't let these people

1008
00:44:59,150 --> 00:44:56,460
rule your life and

1009
00:45:02,210 --> 00:44:59,160
uh he had a moment and I had really

1010
00:45:05,210 --> 00:45:02,220
hoped honestly I really hoped that this

1011
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:05,220
was sort of cathartic and that maybe he

1012
00:45:10,730 --> 00:45:08,880
had finally gotten some closure and uh

1013
00:45:14,510 --> 00:45:10,740
he could move in a healthier Direction

1014
00:45:17,089 --> 00:45:14,520
after that but that turned out to not be

1015
00:45:19,250 --> 00:45:17,099
correct right

1016
00:45:21,770 --> 00:45:19,260
um is that something you're willing to

1017
00:45:24,290 --> 00:45:21,780
share with us Tia I know it's a pretty

1018
00:45:26,990 --> 00:45:24,300
impactful part of the book as well

1019
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:27,000
um and you you detail it so

1020
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:29,040
um respectfully I think because again

1021
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:31,680
it's so easy to just laugh at what this

1022
00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:33,660
guy has done and the life he led and

1023
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:36,300
move on with your life but um again

1024
00:45:41,690 --> 00:45:38,700
there's a person here someone who

1025
00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:41,700
there's a reason that things led up to

1026
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:44,220
this point so yeah would if if you're

1027
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:45,839
okay sharing with what happened to

1028
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:48,960
Richard and you know getting to know

1029
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:52,560
this guy yeah you know uh I of course

1030
00:45:58,750 --> 00:45:55,680
didn't uh believe in almost anything

1031
00:46:01,250 --> 00:45:58,760
that Richard believed in conspiracy wise

1032
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,260
uh but there was there was a lot of

1033
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:03,599
things that I I liked about him he I

1034
00:46:08,270 --> 00:46:05,280
thought was a very creative individual

1035
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:08,280
he had made all these superhero costumes

1036
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:11,160
which looked really cool uh this is sort

1037
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:12,720
of a hobby he had been doing his whole

1038
00:46:18,410 --> 00:46:16,319
life he was an illustrator he he created

1039
00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:18,420
these very interesting looking comic

1040
00:46:21,790 --> 00:46:20,040
books

1041
00:46:25,010 --> 00:46:21,800
um and you know he had made these videos

1042
00:46:25,530 --> 00:46:25,020
that you know had some fun elements to

1043
00:46:27,890 --> 00:46:25,540
it

1044
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:27,900
[Music]

1045
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:49,790
in order for this to be an illegal coup

1046
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,839
your group would have to be the

1047
00:46:57,050 --> 00:46:53,760
legitimate government which you have

1048
00:47:00,349 --> 00:46:57,060
never been preach on it PP none of you

1049
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:00,359
were fairly elected by the people

1050
00:47:06,349 --> 00:47:02,880
all of you were secretly chosen from

1051
00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:06,359
Illuminati bloodline families testify

1052
00:47:11,569 --> 00:47:09,420
you have never represented us

1053
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,579
you're the tools of the globalists and

1054
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:13,920
zionists the Rothschilds the

1055
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:16,920
Rockefellers and the Vatican Amen

1056
00:47:20,990 --> 00:47:18,240
brother

1057
00:47:24,670 --> 00:47:21,000
um so I thought he was creative and

1058
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:24,680
imaginative but that imagination

1059
00:47:31,790 --> 00:47:27,599
unfortunately I think was also uh it was

1060
00:47:35,329 --> 00:47:31,800
like a double-edged sword because it um

1061
00:47:38,569 --> 00:47:35,339
it made him see symbolism and stuff that

1062
00:47:40,849 --> 00:47:38,579
wasn't there and it was taking a very

1063
00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:40,859
heavy toll on him

1064
00:47:51,890 --> 00:47:48,960
so uh you know in 2000 early early 2019

1065
00:47:53,329 --> 00:47:51,900
um I was working a part-time gig as a

1066
00:47:58,190 --> 00:47:53,339
bartender

1067
00:48:00,829 --> 00:47:58,200
and I got a text from Lon who was

1068
00:48:03,890 --> 00:48:00,839
um the guy that Richard met in stuntman

1069
00:48:07,309 --> 00:48:03,900
school and Lon was

1070
00:48:08,930 --> 00:48:07,319
really his only long-term friend that he

1071
00:48:13,010 --> 00:48:08,940
had

1072
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,020
um and you know Lon told me he he felt

1073
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,119
like Richard didn't have a lot of

1074
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:16,800
friends and he needed somebody to kind

1075
00:48:22,490 --> 00:48:19,920
of look out for him and he kind of uh

1076
00:48:25,609 --> 00:48:22,500
selflessly filled that role

1077
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:25,619
so Lon sent me a text and said

1078
00:48:29,930 --> 00:48:28,079
I have to talk to you about Richard call

1079
00:48:32,510 --> 00:48:29,940
me as soon as you can

1080
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:32,520
and right then I knew that something

1081
00:48:37,609 --> 00:48:34,559
terrible had happened to Richard

1082
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:37,619
I thought that he had either perhaps uh

1083
00:48:43,250 --> 00:48:40,440
for some reason snapped and done

1084
00:48:46,849 --> 00:48:43,260
something like gone back to the Bohemian

1085
00:48:50,750 --> 00:48:46,859
Grove or who knows or that he uh was

1086
00:48:52,569 --> 00:48:50,760
dead and as it turns out he died

1087
00:48:56,990 --> 00:48:52,579
um in in 2018

1088
00:48:59,450 --> 00:48:57,000
uh he he packed up his stuff he drove

1089
00:49:02,870 --> 00:48:59,460
out to Washington DC

1090
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:02,880
he parked in front of a Freemason Temple

1091
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,000
uh uh in Washington DC it's about a mile

1092
00:49:11,329 --> 00:49:08,400
away from the White House

1093
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:11,339
um and he died by suicide in his truck

1094
00:49:15,230 --> 00:49:13,680
which had a bunch of signs on it that

1095
00:49:17,150 --> 00:49:15,240
we're talking about Freebase and

1096
00:49:20,809 --> 00:49:17,160
conspiracies and stuff

1097
00:49:23,930 --> 00:49:20,819
so that was kind of his his last message

1098
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:23,940
um and it was very sad to me uh because

1099
00:49:30,049 --> 00:49:27,440
I had taken the time to get to know him

1100
00:49:32,750 --> 00:49:30,059
and like I said he had this creative

1101
00:49:34,970 --> 00:49:32,760
ability I just wish I really wish he

1102
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,980
could have channeled some of that in a

1103
00:49:38,450 --> 00:49:36,240
different direction

1104
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,460
but I really feel that the conspiracies

1105
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:41,520
just had slowly dragged him down over a

1106
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:45,119
long period of time and eventually uh

1107
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:46,559
they killed him

1108
00:49:52,609 --> 00:49:50,400
right it's very tragic and you know I I

1109
00:49:55,250 --> 00:49:52,619
feel the same way because I mean being

1110
00:49:58,010 --> 00:49:55,260
in the UFO field and kind of the circles

1111
00:50:00,589 --> 00:49:58,020
I'm in I get sent messages and emails

1112
00:50:03,049 --> 00:50:00,599
constantly about have you heard about

1113
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:03,059
you know the the thing going on with 5G

1114
00:50:09,710 --> 00:50:06,240
or the reptilians or or Q Anon and I'm

1115
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:09,720
just like you are you're too important

1116
00:50:16,430 --> 00:50:13,680
in the world to people and to society to

1117
00:50:18,410 --> 00:50:16,440
to get into this and that's what's most

1118
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:18,420
scary to you and we'll talk about that

1119
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:21,599
in a little bit is um I feel like early

1120
00:50:27,410 --> 00:50:25,440
on in conspiracy theory circles you kind

1121
00:50:30,049 --> 00:50:27,420
of you could laugh about it you know the

1122
00:50:32,329 --> 00:50:30,059
whole tinfoil hat sort of thing and and

1123
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:32,339
whatnot and you could have fun and it

1124
00:50:37,250 --> 00:50:34,319
was like it was cool to question things

1125
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:37,260
and I will admit for for a little while

1126
00:50:44,210 --> 00:50:40,440
I was heavy into the truther thing about

1127
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:44,220
911 and um and kind of stuff like that

1128
00:50:49,609 --> 00:50:47,220
but uh you know as you evolve both and

1129
00:50:53,329 --> 00:50:49,619
see the world for what it really is it's

1130
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,339
it's not easy to create a conspiracy

1131
00:50:58,730 --> 00:50:55,680
that elaborate um I I'm sure it happens

1132
00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:58,740
and we can talk about that but um moving

1133
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,420
away from Richard because again like

1134
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:02,400
he's kind of the uh

1135
00:51:09,170 --> 00:51:05,640
the impetus or not the impetus he's he's

1136
00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:09,180
kind of the allegory for the overarching

1137
00:51:13,730 --> 00:51:12,180
issue here of conspiracy theory and um

1138
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:13,740
again there's so much we didn't touch on

1139
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:15,839
about Richard that people really need to

1140
00:51:20,030 --> 00:51:18,000
read the book to get into but let's talk

1141
00:51:22,250 --> 00:51:20,040
about in general

1142
00:51:25,730 --> 00:51:22,260
um we live in a world now full of

1143
00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:25,740
conspiracy theory uh unchecked Wild West

1144
00:51:31,309 --> 00:51:28,740
sort of thing and um it's not like it

1145
00:51:33,890 --> 00:51:31,319
used to be you know where who shot JFK

1146
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,900
was the most controversial thing we were

1147
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:35,760
talking about and

1148
00:51:41,390 --> 00:51:38,880
um that's changed a lot but um I know

1149
00:51:43,549 --> 00:51:41,400
you also what I liked about the book is

1150
00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:43,559
you intertwine Richard's story with all

1151
00:51:49,309 --> 00:51:46,140
these other things that you explored JFK

1152
00:51:52,250 --> 00:51:49,319
conventions flat earthers

1153
00:51:55,609 --> 00:51:52,260
um uh anti-vaxxers all these different

1154
00:52:00,589 --> 00:51:55,619
sort of things and uh where did we take

1155
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:04,790
um the free world leader uh cheering on

1156
00:52:10,430 --> 00:52:08,640
people who attacked the capital where

1157
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:10,440
did that happen and for you what do you

1158
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:12,359
think yeah

1159
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:15,240
um so completely like you're saying you

1160
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,720
know uh my introduction before I met

1161
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:20,400
Richard I was like oh yeah I know what

1162
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:22,640
conspiracy is and and I kind of like it

1163
00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:26,520
uh so my introduction was probably uh

1164
00:52:31,549 --> 00:52:28,800
when I was a teen I read a lot of books

1165
00:52:33,470 --> 00:52:31,559
about UFO case files and stuff like that

1166
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:33,480
and I loved it I was like oh this is so

1167
00:52:37,730 --> 00:52:35,520
interesting and of course a lot of that

1168
00:52:40,130 --> 00:52:37,740
intersects with conspiracy because it's

1169
00:52:42,530 --> 00:52:40,140
it's talking about government conspiracy

1170
00:52:46,970 --> 00:52:42,540
hiding up UFOs

1171
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:46,980
I loved X-Files in the 90s of course and

1172
00:52:50,450 --> 00:52:48,720
they had these characters on the show

1173
00:52:52,730 --> 00:52:50,460
The Lone gunmen

1174
00:52:54,829 --> 00:52:52,740
and I was like I Love These Guys these

1175
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:54,839
guys are cool they're like eccentric and

1176
00:52:59,690 --> 00:52:57,119
they're exploring all this weird stuff

1177
00:53:02,210 --> 00:52:59,700
so that's really how I viewed conspiracy

1178
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:02,220
at that point like you know it's kind of

1179
00:53:07,849 --> 00:53:05,520
this fun interesting exploration of

1180
00:53:09,650 --> 00:53:07,859
stuff that may or may not be true and

1181
00:53:12,109 --> 00:53:09,660
like you said the classics JFK

1182
00:53:15,890 --> 00:53:12,119
assassination

1183
00:53:18,530 --> 00:53:15,900
um UFO cases like Area 51 and Roswell

1184
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:18,540
and and stuff like that

1185
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:21,599
um so I had this like naive kind of

1186
00:53:26,450 --> 00:53:24,720
charming view of conspiracy going in and

1187
00:53:28,250 --> 00:53:26,460
and that stuff still I mean I still

1188
00:53:31,970 --> 00:53:28,260
think is great I'm still interested in

1189
00:53:34,910 --> 00:53:31,980
UFOs uh I don't particularly subscribe

1190
00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:34,920
to any one particular JFK Theory but I

1191
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:37,260
think it's an interesting mystery

1192
00:53:41,329 --> 00:53:38,760
there's a lot of weird stuff that

1193
00:53:43,490 --> 00:53:41,339
happened that day in Dallas

1194
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:43,500
um so that's still stuff that I like

1195
00:53:50,510 --> 00:53:47,520
where I think it begins to take uh an

1196
00:53:51,530 --> 00:53:50,520
ugly turn I think number one is I think

1197
00:53:52,910 --> 00:53:51,540
that there's

1198
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:52,920
um three things

1199
00:53:58,910 --> 00:53:57,420
uh number one is uh 911.

1200
00:54:02,450 --> 00:53:58,920
um you know

1201
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,460
that is a pretty heavy conspiracy theory

1202
00:54:08,210 --> 00:54:05,119
because it suggests that our government

1203
00:54:10,370 --> 00:54:08,220
uh let thousands of our citizens either

1204
00:54:13,069 --> 00:54:10,380
willingly die or they had some knowledge

1205
00:54:16,970 --> 00:54:13,079
of it beforehand or they actively

1206
00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:16,980
applaud it themselves and you know it's

1207
00:54:21,710 --> 00:54:19,380
still I know there's probably a lot of

1208
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,720
young people where this is not something

1209
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:23,760
they experience but I remember very

1210
00:54:30,170 --> 00:54:27,480
clearly where I was on on 9 11 and just

1211
00:54:32,990 --> 00:54:30,180
what a terrible feeling it was uh seeing

1212
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:33,000
those images on TV so I think there is

1213
00:54:39,950 --> 00:54:36,780
sort of this like disbelief and anger

1214
00:54:42,289 --> 00:54:39,960
and I think that's uh it really started

1215
00:54:44,329 --> 00:54:42,299
uh Richard for example

1216
00:54:47,089 --> 00:54:44,339
had been thinking about the Bohemian

1217
00:54:49,490 --> 00:54:47,099
Grove and the quote that he gave me was

1218
00:54:52,970 --> 00:54:49,500
that he hadn't really committed to the

1219
00:54:55,970 --> 00:54:52,980
idea of raiding the Bohemian Grove or

1220
00:54:58,130 --> 00:54:55,980
whatever he was going to do uh until 9

1221
00:55:00,829 --> 00:54:58,140
11 happened and then he was like that

1222
00:55:03,609 --> 00:55:00,839
changed things for me okay now I was

1223
00:55:06,829 --> 00:55:03,619
ready to go in there and possibly die

1224
00:55:10,069 --> 00:55:06,839
because of these conspiracies so I think

1225
00:55:12,770 --> 00:55:10,079
that's an important Milestone number two

1226
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:12,780
um I'll tell you when I really started

1227
00:55:17,870 --> 00:55:15,359
to fall out of love with conspiracy

1228
00:55:21,770 --> 00:55:17,880
theory or I realized that it could have

1229
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:21,780
a really really dark side and that was

1230
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:24,480
um the suggestion that this the Sandy

1231
00:55:30,770 --> 00:55:27,839
Hook shooting it was a hoax

1232
00:55:33,530 --> 00:55:30,780
um which was something that was promoted

1233
00:55:36,109 --> 00:55:33,540
in a lot of conspiracy sites in these

1234
00:55:38,569 --> 00:55:36,119
poor families it like this turns my

1235
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:38,579
stomach to think of it they not only had

1236
00:55:44,089 --> 00:55:41,520
to deal with their young children being

1237
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,099
massacred in the school shooting but

1238
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:46,319
they then were being harassed by

1239
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:48,720
conspiracy theorists who would call them

1240
00:55:53,210 --> 00:55:50,880
email them sometimes stop them on the

1241
00:55:55,490 --> 00:55:53,220
streets and say hey why are you

1242
00:55:57,289 --> 00:55:55,500
pretending that you had a kid that died

1243
00:56:00,130 --> 00:55:57,299
in the school shooting

1244
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:00,140
that was when I was like wow this can be

1245
00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:04,559
just the most ugly side of humanity can

1246
00:56:09,530 --> 00:56:06,180
be wrapped up in some of these

1247
00:56:11,089 --> 00:56:09,540
conspiracies so it was really it was a

1248
00:56:13,549 --> 00:56:11,099
really turning point for me personally

1249
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:13,559
and for a lot of people I think this is

1250
00:56:18,890 --> 00:56:16,079
when you know Alex Jones had kind of

1251
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:18,900
been ignored before that as being some

1252
00:56:24,650 --> 00:56:21,119
sort of crackpot that was off wherever

1253
00:56:28,010 --> 00:56:24,660
just ignore him but after that you know

1254
00:56:31,250 --> 00:56:28,020
is when people began to uh take them to

1255
00:56:33,950 --> 00:56:31,260
court as they should have and the last

1256
00:56:37,010 --> 00:56:33,960
major Milestone I will say is

1257
00:56:38,030 --> 00:56:37,020
um The Campaign and election of Donald

1258
00:56:40,990 --> 00:56:38,040
Trump

1259
00:56:43,789 --> 00:56:41,000
uh he more than anyone

1260
00:56:46,250 --> 00:56:43,799
normalized conspiracy theory he's

1261
00:56:49,309 --> 00:56:46,260
constantly uh talking about them

1262
00:56:51,650 --> 00:56:49,319
tweeting them out using them as sort of

1263
00:56:52,789 --> 00:56:51,660
a weapon against anyone that he doesn't

1264
00:56:55,789 --> 00:56:52,799
like really

1265
00:56:58,190 --> 00:56:55,799
uh and that had severe consequences I

1266
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:58,200
think because he was spreading these

1267
00:57:03,109 --> 00:56:59,760
conspiracy theories and he had a very

1268
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:03,119
powerful platform to do that you know he

1269
00:57:09,530 --> 00:57:06,480
wasn't some guy uh broadcasting of his

1270
00:57:11,329 --> 00:57:09,540
basement out in the desert somewhere or

1271
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:11,339
whatever this is a guy who's the

1272
00:57:16,010 --> 00:57:14,160
president of the United States and so he

1273
00:57:19,250 --> 00:57:16,020
had a very powerful voice and he used

1274
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:19,260
that to spread a lot of conspiracies a

1275
00:57:26,809 --> 00:57:23,280
wide range birtherism Q Anon stuff you

1276
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:26,819
know whatever fit into his agenda

1277
00:57:31,789 --> 00:57:29,520
so I think those were three at least not

1278
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:31,799
all of them but three major points that

1279
00:57:37,010 --> 00:57:35,040
that I can think of yeah

1280
00:57:38,510 --> 00:57:37,020
um well I mean let's touch on the Trump

1281
00:57:40,370 --> 00:57:38,520
thing because there's no getting around

1282
00:57:42,349 --> 00:57:40,380
it and I know there'll be people

1283
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:42,359
watching and listening that are either

1284
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:45,599
offended by what we say or or annoyed or

1285
00:57:50,870 --> 00:57:48,240
what have you I don't care because

1286
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:50,880
um you're right I mean facts are facts

1287
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:53,520
the president of the United States did

1288
00:58:00,530 --> 00:57:58,079
not uh denounce these crazy theories he

1289
00:58:03,049 --> 00:58:00,540
did not uh you know

1290
00:58:05,150 --> 00:58:03,059
there was no punishment for those who

1291
00:58:06,650 --> 00:58:05,160
sought out violence against these sort

1292
00:58:09,470 --> 00:58:06,660
of things

1293
00:58:13,069 --> 00:58:09,480
um there are members of Congress or or

1294
00:58:15,170 --> 00:58:13,079
the Senate who have gone up to people

1295
00:58:17,630 --> 00:58:15,180
from Sandy Hook and told them you're

1296
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,640
lying which is just one of the most

1297
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:19,680
despicable things I could I could even

1298
00:58:23,569 --> 00:58:21,359
think of like you said the whole crisis

1299
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:23,579
actor thing another big part of your

1300
00:58:27,549 --> 00:58:24,480
book

1301
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,559
um and yeah when you have the president

1302
00:58:32,329 --> 00:58:29,760
empowering and embolding these people

1303
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:32,339
that's that's an issue and there's

1304
00:58:36,049 --> 00:58:33,839
really no getting around that no matter

1305
00:58:39,230 --> 00:58:36,059
what your politics are I'm not saying

1306
00:58:41,690 --> 00:58:39,240
Democrats are any better or Libertarians

1307
00:58:44,270 --> 00:58:41,700
or socialists or what have you the fact

1308
00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:44,280
of the matter is the previous president

1309
00:58:49,069 --> 00:58:46,260
uh

1310
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:49,079
whatever got him votes so let's talk

1311
00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:51,680
about that I mean we have YouTube

1312
00:58:56,450 --> 00:58:54,540
YouTubers who um spout all these

1313
00:59:00,349 --> 00:58:56,460
theories as well and have just made

1314
00:59:03,950 --> 00:59:00,359
cueing on this huge monolithic thing now

1315
00:59:05,569 --> 00:59:03,960
and um I seriously doubt that a lot of

1316
00:59:07,789 --> 00:59:05,579
them actually believe what they're

1317
00:59:10,730 --> 00:59:07,799
saying but whatever gets them up to a

1318
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:10,740
million views Whatever Gets You votes or

1319
00:59:16,609 --> 00:59:12,480
um gets you in the newspaper and the

1320
00:59:19,309 --> 00:59:16,619
headlines uh so let's let's let's talk

1321
00:59:20,450 --> 00:59:19,319
about it Q Anon the biggest one right

1322
00:59:22,609 --> 00:59:20,460
now

1323
00:59:26,930 --> 00:59:22,619
um what do you think of this whole thing

1324
00:59:28,609 --> 00:59:26,940
man I mean it's just it's insane that

1325
00:59:32,210 --> 00:59:28,619
we've gotten to this point where it's

1326
00:59:34,190 --> 00:59:32,220
gone mainstream again the president of

1327
00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:34,200
the United States had to actually talk

1328
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:36,720
about it um didn't have to but chose to

1329
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:39,119
and uh yeah what do you got for me in

1330
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:42,000
terms of Q and on yeah he was he was

1331
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:43,680
finally called out about this and he had

1332
00:59:48,770 --> 00:59:46,559
a good opportunity to say hey

1333
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:48,780
um he he's like I don't know what Q Anon

1334
00:59:52,609 --> 00:59:50,160
is okay

1335
00:59:55,250 --> 00:59:52,619
I'm pretty sure that you know a cunan is

1336
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:55,260
by this point if you don't have one of

1337
00:59:58,430 --> 00:59:57,119
your aides go over to Google and find

1338
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:58,440
out what it is because everyone's

1339
01:00:02,870 --> 01:00:00,720
talking about it but he was just kind of

1340
01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:02,880
uh weaseling his way out of talking

1341
01:00:06,670 --> 01:00:04,740
about it when he had a really good

1342
01:00:09,410 --> 01:00:06,680
opportunity to be like

1343
01:00:13,069 --> 01:00:09,420
this uh thing that's being spread around

1344
01:00:13,789 --> 01:00:13,079
is not true obviously you know

1345
01:00:17,230 --> 01:00:13,799
um

1346
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:17,240
these uh theories about like uh satanic

1347
01:00:23,329 --> 01:00:20,400
uh ring of Democrats and Hollywood and

1348
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,339
stuff like that uh is not something that

1349
01:00:28,250 --> 01:00:25,200
I endorse that's all he had to say but

1350
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:28,260
of course you know he completely said oh

1351
01:00:31,730 --> 01:00:29,760
I don't know who they are I hear that

1352
01:00:34,069 --> 01:00:31,740
they're good people though and they they

1353
01:00:34,970 --> 01:00:34,079
very much don't like pedophiles which is

1354
01:00:39,650 --> 01:00:34,980
great

1355
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:39,660
but cunan I really feel is a cult it's

1356
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:43,200
not it's no longer like a fringe idea or

1357
01:00:49,069 --> 01:00:46,559
a movement it's a cult and

1358
01:00:51,950 --> 01:00:49,079
um Donald Trump essentially is a cult

1359
01:00:55,370 --> 01:00:51,960
leader like like Jim Jones or someone

1360
01:00:58,609 --> 01:00:55,380
uh along with this mysterious idea that

1361
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:58,619
there's someone named Q out there

1362
01:01:04,309 --> 01:01:01,440
um when this is someone who's probably

1363
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:04,319
just trolling or more likely uh

1364
01:01:10,970 --> 01:01:07,680
benefiting from spreading these ideas

1365
01:01:12,170 --> 01:01:10,980
and uh it's very cult like in a number

1366
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:12,180
of ways

1367
01:01:18,730 --> 01:01:15,599
one is they are completely willing to

1368
01:01:21,770 --> 01:01:18,740
sever uh their relationships with family

1369
01:01:24,109 --> 01:01:21,780
and loved ones and this is really sad

1370
01:01:28,010 --> 01:01:24,119
and tragic I actually have a very good

1371
01:01:31,010 --> 01:01:28,020
friend and he lost his mom down the Q

1372
01:01:34,130 --> 01:01:31,020
rabbit hole uh and it's very difficult

1373
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:34,140
for him like he can't communicate with

1374
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:35,760
her anymore because she's always like

1375
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,400
trying to convince him about this this Q

1376
01:01:43,370 --> 01:01:40,559
Anon stuff and this is a story that's

1377
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:43,380
being repeated all all over so they kind

1378
01:01:48,770 --> 01:01:46,079
of uh they'll sever the ties to their

1379
01:01:51,289 --> 01:01:48,780
loved ones and their new family is their

1380
01:01:53,870 --> 01:01:51,299
fellow Q Anon people that's very

1381
01:01:55,730 --> 01:01:53,880
cult-like you know

1382
01:01:58,309 --> 01:01:55,740
um and then

1383
01:01:59,990 --> 01:01:58,319
uh the other thing is as we saw on

1384
01:02:02,150 --> 01:02:00,000
January 6th there was a lot of Q

1385
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:02,160
non-believers who are part of that mob

1386
01:02:07,069 --> 01:02:04,799
in the the Insurrection uh or as I

1387
01:02:13,130 --> 01:02:07,079
jokingly call it sometimes the the Q

1388
01:02:15,410 --> 01:02:13,140
data uh but um those people uh they were

1389
01:02:17,630 --> 01:02:15,420
willing to die for this cause and some

1390
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:17,640
of them did die for the cause

1391
01:02:24,109 --> 01:02:20,400
so again I think this is very cult-like

1392
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:24,119
and the the strategy for approaching it

1393
01:02:28,970 --> 01:02:26,400
is um perhaps the same way that you

1394
01:02:31,069 --> 01:02:28,980
would try to deprogram occult

1395
01:02:33,890 --> 01:02:31,079
because I think that's how far they are

1396
01:02:36,349 --> 01:02:33,900
and another major thing uh and this is I

1397
01:02:37,309 --> 01:02:36,359
mean it's funny but it isn't

1398
01:02:41,150 --> 01:02:37,319
um

1399
01:02:44,329 --> 01:02:41,160
uh Cults a lot of times will Envision A

1400
01:02:48,410 --> 01:02:44,339
Day of Reckoning of some sort you know a

1401
01:02:50,990 --> 01:02:48,420
Biblical apocalypse or a UFO is going to

1402
01:02:54,130 --> 01:02:51,000
land and they're all going to uh climb

1403
01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:54,140
on board and escape the Earth you know

1404
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:58,319
uh for Q Anon it's this idea of the

1405
01:03:04,370 --> 01:03:01,440
storm is going to happen and Trump is

1406
01:03:06,770 --> 01:03:04,380
going to be Victorious and all of these

1407
01:03:09,410 --> 01:03:06,780
uh Sinister enemies are all going to be

1408
01:03:12,349 --> 01:03:09,420
rounded up and exposed for being

1409
01:03:14,690 --> 01:03:12,359
pedophiles and cannibals and they're all

1410
01:03:17,569 --> 01:03:14,700
going to be put away

1411
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:17,579
um so what happens with Cults is that

1412
01:03:21,950 --> 01:03:19,920
day won't happen and some of them will

1413
01:03:23,809 --> 01:03:21,960
kind of wake up and they'll be like oh I

1414
01:03:27,109 --> 01:03:23,819
believe this this thing that isn't true

1415
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:27,119
at all and I'm moving on with my life

1416
01:03:32,329 --> 01:03:29,520
but then you have the hardcore people

1417
01:03:34,130 --> 01:03:32,339
and they will keep it going and they're

1418
01:03:37,849 --> 01:03:34,140
they're you know they'll have this high

1419
01:03:39,770 --> 01:03:37,859
level of cognitive dissonance where they

1420
01:03:42,170 --> 01:03:39,780
try to think their way around this

1421
01:03:45,170 --> 01:03:42,180
obstacle so for example

1422
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:45,180
um some Q non-believers now believe that

1423
01:03:50,930 --> 01:03:48,000
Trump actually is going to be sworn in

1424
01:03:53,809 --> 01:03:50,940
as president on March 4th

1425
01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:53,819
because March 4th was the date for a

1426
01:03:58,490 --> 01:03:56,400
long time when presidents uh were sworn

1427
01:04:00,890 --> 01:03:58,500
into office but at some point they're

1428
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:00,900
like you know from the uh November

1429
01:04:05,870 --> 01:04:03,599
election to March is kind of a long time

1430
01:04:08,029 --> 01:04:05,880
to do this transition why don't we

1431
01:04:10,549 --> 01:04:08,039
shorten it up to January

1432
01:04:14,089 --> 01:04:10,559
right uh but they believe that you know

1433
01:04:15,710 --> 01:04:14,099
surprise like uh Biden wasn't a

1434
01:04:18,049 --> 01:04:15,720
legitimate president because he wasn't

1435
01:04:18,829 --> 01:04:18,059
sworn in on March 4th and Trump is going

1436
01:04:21,890 --> 01:04:18,839
to

1437
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:21,900
it's really amazing that your mind can

1438
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:24,960
make that stretch but uh that's really

1439
01:04:30,170 --> 01:04:27,599
the nature of a cult yeah

1440
01:04:32,930 --> 01:04:30,180
um and you know I remember the day of

1441
01:04:35,870 --> 01:04:32,940
the inauguration when it didn't happen

1442
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:35,880
the great storm didn't come uh you know

1443
01:04:40,609 --> 01:04:38,160
people started going on these Q Anon

1444
01:04:43,490 --> 01:04:40,619
forums and watching these people have a

1445
01:04:46,609 --> 01:04:43,500
meltdown and you know laughing about it

1446
01:04:50,690 --> 01:04:46,619
and again it's hard because I don't want

1447
01:04:54,170 --> 01:04:50,700
to uh paint all these people as crazy or

1448
01:04:56,510 --> 01:04:54,180
or members of a cult but you're right

1449
01:04:59,870 --> 01:04:56,520
there are cult like mentalities clearly

1450
01:05:02,270 --> 01:04:59,880
happening here and it's not just like

1451
01:05:04,789 --> 01:05:02,280
you know loners who have nowhere else to

1452
01:05:07,069 --> 01:05:04,799
go and this is the tribe that they

1453
01:05:07,970 --> 01:05:07,079
finally found kind of like Richard would

1454
01:05:11,270 --> 01:05:07,980
be

1455
01:05:14,210 --> 01:05:11,280
um you have successful businessmen and

1456
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:14,220
women who believe in Q Anon you have um

1457
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:17,039
the burissa at your coffee shop or the

1458
01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:19,200
uh the foreman for a construction

1459
01:05:24,770 --> 01:05:22,319
company like it doesn't seem to kind of

1460
01:05:26,809 --> 01:05:24,780
fit that mold anymore of like lost

1461
01:05:29,510 --> 01:05:26,819
people finding something

1462
01:05:31,010 --> 01:05:29,520
um which is scary so I guess kind of

1463
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:31,020
playing off of that man

1464
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:32,880
um

1465
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:36,480
what do we do I mean the Bell has been

1466
01:05:40,370 --> 01:05:38,160
rung can we not

1467
01:05:43,490 --> 01:05:40,380
will this ever stop or will it just like

1468
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:43,500
you said evolve into something else uh

1469
01:05:48,170 --> 01:05:45,359
these people firmly believe they're

1470
01:05:49,849 --> 01:05:48,180
right and that they are um you know you

1471
01:05:52,490 --> 01:05:49,859
mentioned in the book this idea of the

1472
01:05:55,069 --> 01:05:52,500
uh the Dunning Kruger effect like

1473
01:05:57,890 --> 01:05:55,079
thinking you are smarter than everyone

1474
01:06:00,950 --> 01:05:57,900
else and you know the real truth uh

1475
01:06:02,170 --> 01:06:00,960
which is a whole other issue as well but

1476
01:06:04,670 --> 01:06:02,180
um

1477
01:06:06,349 --> 01:06:04,680
de-platforming happens on YouTube you

1478
01:06:08,450 --> 01:06:06,359
know Alex Jones

1479
01:06:11,029 --> 01:06:08,460
um David Ike they've all been taken off

1480
01:06:12,410 --> 01:06:11,039
social media this that this that and

1481
01:06:15,410 --> 01:06:12,420
then everyone starts saying our free

1482
01:06:18,410 --> 01:06:15,420
speech is disappearing oh my god

1483
01:06:20,270 --> 01:06:18,420
um what do you think because I mean yeah

1484
01:06:22,970 --> 01:06:20,280
of course we all are Advocates of free

1485
01:06:25,309 --> 01:06:22,980
speech in this country it's one of our

1486
01:06:28,789 --> 01:06:25,319
you know our founding things in the

1487
01:06:31,309 --> 01:06:28,799
Constitution but um how do we stop what

1488
01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:31,319
seems to be something that just grows

1489
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:34,799
bigger and more Insidious and more

1490
01:06:40,010 --> 01:06:36,720
violent up to the point where people

1491
01:06:41,990 --> 01:06:40,020
died at the Capitol because of this yeah

1492
01:06:44,230 --> 01:06:42,000
it's a really hard question you know

1493
01:06:47,150 --> 01:06:44,240
something that I've thought about a lot

1494
01:06:51,770 --> 01:06:47,160
uh as I was finishing the book and and

1495
01:06:54,349 --> 01:06:51,780
throughout the last year year plus now

1496
01:06:56,569 --> 01:06:54,359
um yeah it's a it's a problem I think

1497
01:07:00,890 --> 01:06:56,579
that number one it should be addressed

1498
01:07:02,630 --> 01:07:00,900
as uh a National Emergency really

1499
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:02,640
there should be

1500
01:07:07,250 --> 01:07:05,280
um not some conspiracy like you know

1501
01:07:09,049 --> 01:07:07,260
police state or something but I'm saying

1502
01:07:11,870 --> 01:07:09,059
but there should be a definitely a

1503
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,880
committee that is uh trying to think of

1504
01:07:16,309 --> 01:07:13,680
solutions

1505
01:07:19,250 --> 01:07:16,319
um I think that and I hope that I I

1506
01:07:22,450 --> 01:07:19,260
don't know I hope that schools will

1507
01:07:26,210 --> 01:07:22,460
begin to implement things like mandatory

1508
01:07:29,329 --> 01:07:26,220
media literacy classes so people can

1509
01:07:31,970 --> 01:07:29,339
learn uh you know what a good source of

1510
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:31,980
information is and

1511
01:07:37,010 --> 01:07:34,319
um you know what type of media has

1512
01:07:39,529 --> 01:07:37,020
factual reporting and what type of sites

1513
01:07:41,289 --> 01:07:39,539
are like Infowars because it's really

1514
01:07:44,210 --> 01:07:41,299
hard to tell the difference between

1515
01:07:46,970 --> 01:07:44,220
legit news and misinformation right now

1516
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:46,980
I mean I've been fooled before I've seen

1517
01:07:50,690 --> 01:07:48,960
something that looks like a headline I'm

1518
01:07:53,450 --> 01:07:50,700
like I can't believe that that happened

1519
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:53,460
and then you know a few clicks later I'm

1520
01:07:58,430 --> 01:07:55,440
like oh this didn't happen this is some

1521
01:08:00,589 --> 01:07:58,440
garbage site there's a there's a site

1522
01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:00,599
that actually gets me all the time on

1523
01:08:05,630 --> 01:08:03,599
Facebook and um it's called like we got

1524
01:08:07,630 --> 01:08:05,640
this covered or something like that and

1525
01:08:10,609 --> 01:08:07,640
you'll have news about superhero movies

1526
01:08:12,410 --> 01:08:10,619
I'm like what and then I'll click on the

1527
01:08:14,210 --> 01:08:12,420
link it'll be like so we heard a rumor

1528
01:08:16,610 --> 01:08:14,220
from somebody that this is going to

1529
01:08:19,729 --> 01:08:16,620
happen I was like you totally got me

1530
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:19,739
that's not true at all yep so but this

1531
01:08:25,249 --> 01:08:21,839
there's so much of that being pumped out

1532
01:08:26,209 --> 01:08:25,259
that I hope that we teach children

1533
01:08:29,570 --> 01:08:26,219
um

1534
01:08:33,410 --> 01:08:29,580
how to make choices about information

1535
01:08:35,450 --> 01:08:33,420
that they get and uh you know there's

1536
01:08:37,309 --> 01:08:35,460
this term that really kind of makes me

1537
01:08:40,729 --> 01:08:37,319
cringe

1538
01:08:42,410 --> 01:08:40,739
um and it's do your own research now I

1539
01:08:45,110 --> 01:08:42,420
love to do my own research I'm sure that

1540
01:08:47,450 --> 01:08:45,120
you do too Ryan uh you know when I was

1541
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,460
young I used to love to do nothing more

1542
01:08:52,669 --> 01:08:49,920
than go library and look through books

1543
01:08:54,410 --> 01:08:52,679
and pick out books I wanted to read so I

1544
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:54,420
think that doing research is a great

1545
01:09:00,010 --> 01:08:57,839
thing but um like you were saying uh

1546
01:09:03,169 --> 01:09:00,020
with the Dunning Kroger thing

1547
01:09:06,349 --> 01:09:03,179
uh you know your research is not

1548
01:09:09,829 --> 01:09:06,359
Equitable to someone who does actual

1549
01:09:12,769 --> 01:09:09,839
research uh in fields like science and

1550
01:09:13,970 --> 01:09:12,779
technology and stuff

1551
01:09:16,490 --> 01:09:13,980
um so

1552
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:16,500
I mean it just needs to be addressed as

1553
01:09:21,769 --> 01:09:18,239
a problem there needs to be better

1554
01:09:23,990 --> 01:09:21,779
education as far as de-platforming I

1555
01:09:25,970 --> 01:09:24,000
think that's such a a whack-a-mole

1556
01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:25,980
problem

1557
01:09:33,050 --> 01:09:30,000
um you know for example YouTube

1558
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:33,060
this is just so crazy

1559
01:09:35,030 --> 01:09:33,600
um

1560
01:09:36,769 --> 01:09:35,040
to back up

1561
01:09:39,289 --> 01:09:36,779
uh there are these researchers

1562
01:09:41,809 --> 01:09:39,299
researchers at a university and they

1563
01:09:43,669 --> 01:09:41,819
went to some Flat Earth conferences and

1564
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:43,679
they did questionnaires with people who

1565
01:09:51,430 --> 01:09:47,359
attended them and they found that 99.9

1566
01:09:54,350 --> 01:09:51,440
of flat earthers had gotten into that

1567
01:09:56,090 --> 01:09:54,360
because they uh got sucked down a

1568
01:09:57,470 --> 01:09:56,100
YouTube rabbit hole

1569
01:09:59,330 --> 01:09:57,480
they're watching something about

1570
01:10:01,250 --> 01:09:59,340
something else and YouTube pushed them

1571
01:10:03,169 --> 01:10:01,260
towards the flatter stuff and then they

1572
01:10:06,350 --> 01:10:03,179
were binge watching Flat Earth videos

1573
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:06,360
and some of them make like a you know

1574
01:10:11,570 --> 01:10:09,440
what seems like a reasonable argument

1575
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:11,580
uh and then the next thing you know

1576
01:10:16,910 --> 01:10:13,920
they're at a flat Earth conference

1577
01:10:19,729 --> 01:10:16,920
so uh YouTube eventually pulled those

1578
01:10:22,669 --> 01:10:19,739
videos but by the time they did there

1579
01:10:25,130 --> 01:10:22,679
already was this entire subculture of

1580
01:10:27,530 --> 01:10:25,140
flat erasers about their own conferences

1581
01:10:30,950 --> 01:10:27,540
uh they record their own flatters

1582
01:10:32,350 --> 01:10:30,960
hip-hop which is very interesting music

1583
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:32,360
to hear

1584
01:10:38,810 --> 01:10:36,480
interesting yeah uh so it was too little

1585
01:10:40,430 --> 01:10:38,820
too late uh and I think that's the

1586
01:10:43,010 --> 01:10:40,440
problem with a lot of these deep

1587
01:10:46,850 --> 01:10:43,020
platforming things is they wait until

1588
01:10:49,370 --> 01:10:46,860
it's a huge huge problem yeah uh and

1589
01:10:50,930 --> 01:10:49,380
then you know there is the argument to

1590
01:10:53,870 --> 01:10:50,940
be made I don't know how much I agree

1591
01:10:57,470 --> 01:10:53,880
with it but by pulling these people off

1592
01:10:59,570 --> 01:10:57,480
of their platforms you're kind of you're

1593
01:11:02,630 --> 01:10:59,580
giving them the sort of hip factor that

1594
01:11:05,450 --> 01:11:02,640
they're the truth tellers and you know a

1595
01:11:09,530 --> 01:11:05,460
martyr right right yes yeah yes exactly

1596
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:09,540
right so so it's kind of uh a damned if

1597
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:11,400
you do damned if you don't type of

1598
01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:14,400
situation I I don't know the other thing

1599
01:11:19,850 --> 01:11:17,040
that's really hard about this is it's

1600
01:11:21,890 --> 01:11:19,860
really hard to talk someone out of these

1601
01:11:23,570 --> 01:11:21,900
beliefs once they've jumped into them

1602
01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:23,580
yes

1603
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:25,440
um I think that's one of the major

1604
01:11:32,990 --> 01:11:29,040
issues is uh like you said

1605
01:11:35,810 --> 01:11:33,000
um we we live in a world now where we

1606
01:11:38,030 --> 01:11:35,820
can't tell fake news from real news and

1607
01:11:41,090 --> 01:11:38,040
you know you can blame the mainstream

1608
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:41,100
media for some of that obviously

1609
01:11:46,630 --> 01:11:44,640
um certain news media sites exist for a

1610
01:11:49,970 --> 01:11:46,640
very biased approach to something

1611
01:11:51,770 --> 01:11:49,980
politically uh economically and at the

1612
01:11:55,010 --> 01:11:51,780
end of the day they want views they want

1613
01:11:57,770 --> 01:11:55,020
ratings YouTubers want people to to

1614
01:12:00,649 --> 01:11:57,780
stream their stuff or um to click like

1615
01:12:03,189 --> 01:12:00,659
on their social media so they're gonna

1616
01:12:05,930 --> 01:12:03,199
just keep spouting these things that are

1617
01:12:08,990 --> 01:12:05,940
unsubstantiated unfounded

1618
01:12:11,209 --> 01:12:09,000
um because that's what you do and uh

1619
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:11,219
it's scary it's scary to think that no

1620
01:12:16,250 --> 01:12:12,900
matter what we do to try to convince

1621
01:12:19,010 --> 01:12:16,260
people that um you know you should be

1622
01:12:21,470 --> 01:12:19,020
wearing a mask during the pandemic uh

1623
01:12:23,630 --> 01:12:21,480
it's not going to change their mind it's

1624
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:23,640
just not and people are going to get

1625
01:12:26,450 --> 01:12:25,199
sick and people are going to die because

1626
01:12:27,950 --> 01:12:26,460
of it

1627
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:27,960
um and again you know I don't want to

1628
01:12:33,470 --> 01:12:30,480
make this uh whole conspiracy C Theory

1629
01:12:35,390 --> 01:12:33,480
issue about bashing the right or

1630
01:12:39,169 --> 01:12:35,400
conservatives

1631
01:12:41,870 --> 01:12:39,179
um it it seems to be a large percentage

1632
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:41,880
statistically of the more extreme right

1633
01:12:46,550 --> 01:12:43,679
side that believes in a lot of this

1634
01:12:48,590 --> 01:12:46,560
stuff but hey look I'm I'm on the

1635
01:12:51,470 --> 01:12:48,600
opposite side of that when it comes to

1636
01:12:55,010 --> 01:12:51,480
that sort of stuff and I still fall for

1637
01:12:57,709 --> 01:12:55,020
fake news and I still think huh maybe

1638
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:57,719
there is something to that conspiracy so

1639
01:13:01,910 --> 01:13:00,239
um look anyone can get sucked into this

1640
01:13:04,850 --> 01:13:01,920
stuff and like you said with YouTube

1641
01:13:07,310 --> 01:13:04,860
yeah you type in like you want to know

1642
01:13:10,130 --> 01:13:07,320
one little thing about Flat Earth you're

1643
01:13:12,890 --> 01:13:10,140
gonna end up watching 10 hours what's

1644
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:12,900
what YouTube does they want you to stay

1645
01:13:18,290 --> 01:13:15,840
on that site for 10 hours so they are

1646
01:13:20,570 --> 01:13:18,300
gonna use their algorithms to keep

1647
01:13:22,610 --> 01:13:20,580
giving you more Flat Earth stuff and by

1648
01:13:24,470 --> 01:13:22,620
the end of course you're going to start

1649
01:13:27,290 --> 01:13:24,480
believing it because you just watched 10

1650
01:13:28,130 --> 01:13:27,300
hours about it so I I have to agree with

1651
01:13:30,370 --> 01:13:28,140
you

1652
01:13:33,290 --> 01:13:30,380
um I feel

1653
01:13:35,450 --> 01:13:33,300
helpless in trying to convince these

1654
01:13:37,850 --> 01:13:35,460
people that um not only are these things

1655
01:13:40,850 --> 01:13:37,860
dangerous but they're just they're not

1656
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:40,860
real they're not real

1657
01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:44,159
um but let's let's let's I guess on a

1658
01:13:49,790 --> 01:13:46,080
lighter note T oh

1659
01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:49,800
what is real as someone who has gone to

1660
01:13:54,970 --> 01:13:51,840
the UFO Congress

1661
01:13:57,050 --> 01:13:54,980
um to anti-vaxxer events to Flat Earth

1662
01:13:58,430 --> 01:13:57,060
conferences I mean you've done it all

1663
01:14:01,370 --> 01:13:58,440
man at this point

1664
01:14:05,090 --> 01:14:01,380
um what conspiracy theories do you

1665
01:14:08,330 --> 01:14:05,100
personally think are um healthy I guess

1666
01:14:11,090 --> 01:14:08,340
in one way of putting it and uh yeah any

1667
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:11,100
that you really think could be true

1668
01:14:16,669 --> 01:14:14,640
yeah uh and and all this by the way is a

1669
01:14:18,229 --> 01:14:16,679
a subject I mean Explorer in a column in

1670
01:14:20,270 --> 01:14:18,239
a couple weeks called good weird bad

1671
01:14:22,910 --> 01:14:20,280
weird where I'm talking about stuff that

1672
01:14:26,689 --> 01:14:22,920
I love you know I love paranormal stuff

1673
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:26,699
um and UFOs and and stuff like that

1674
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:29,280
so uh and and this is an important Point

1675
01:14:33,709 --> 01:14:30,239
too

1676
01:14:36,790 --> 01:14:33,719
um in my book there are several points

1677
01:14:39,890 --> 01:14:36,800
in which I tell a story about something

1678
01:14:40,990 --> 01:14:39,900
that probably sounded like a conspiracy

1679
01:14:44,750 --> 01:14:41,000
theory

1680
01:14:47,450 --> 01:14:44,760
uh as it was happening or or afterward

1681
01:14:50,090 --> 01:14:47,460
but that we now know is true uh for

1682
01:14:54,169 --> 01:14:50,100
example the MK Ultra program right right

1683
01:14:55,070 --> 01:14:54,179
so this is a terrible CIA program where

1684
01:14:57,770 --> 01:14:55,080
they

1685
01:15:00,050 --> 01:14:57,780
um tested different drugs on unwitting

1686
01:15:01,910 --> 01:15:00,060
people to see if they could possibly

1687
01:15:04,790 --> 01:15:01,920
come up with some sort of agent that

1688
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:04,800
would be a mind control device that they

1689
01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:07,260
could use you know in the Cold War so

1690
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:09,120
they did these terrible experiments on

1691
01:15:15,410 --> 01:15:11,040
people without their their knowledge or

1692
01:15:18,290 --> 01:15:15,420
consent and if that uh would have been

1693
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:18,300
leaked out in any way uh I'm sure people

1694
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:20,159
have been like oh this is that's a

1695
01:15:25,310 --> 01:15:22,320
conspiracy theory that sounds crazy you

1696
01:15:27,950 --> 01:15:25,320
know but we know that's true because

1697
01:15:30,310 --> 01:15:27,960
um they tried to shred all the documents

1698
01:15:33,169 --> 01:15:30,320
on that but some of them had been

1699
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:33,179
misfiled so there was a Freedom of

1700
01:15:38,270 --> 01:15:36,000
Information Act request and those files

1701
01:15:40,490 --> 01:15:38,280
were discovered and they they lay out

1702
01:15:43,430 --> 01:15:40,500
just part of the program who knows what

1703
01:15:45,110 --> 01:15:43,440
the full scope of the program was just

1704
01:15:47,330 --> 01:15:45,120
the part that we know about was was

1705
01:15:49,430 --> 01:15:47,340
absolutely terrible and there's other

1706
01:15:52,729 --> 01:15:49,440
stories like that throughout history of

1707
01:15:54,169 --> 01:15:52,739
things that are conspiracy like but

1708
01:15:56,270 --> 01:15:54,179
they're we know that they're true

1709
01:15:58,729 --> 01:15:56,280
there's evidence that they're true

1710
01:16:01,430 --> 01:15:58,739
so I certainly you know don't ever want

1711
01:16:03,649 --> 01:16:01,440
to be like oh all conspiracy this is all

1712
01:16:06,050 --> 01:16:03,659
fake everything's a conspiracy is is

1713
01:16:08,030 --> 01:16:06,060
total garbage because

1714
01:16:11,209 --> 01:16:08,040
um those stories are true and a lot of

1715
01:16:13,850 --> 01:16:11,219
uh conspiracy is start because there is

1716
01:16:16,370 --> 01:16:13,860
some kernel of truth but then people

1717
01:16:18,350 --> 01:16:16,380
it's like that telephone game that you

1718
01:16:20,330 --> 01:16:18,360
play when you're a kid where you whisper

1719
01:16:22,130 --> 01:16:20,340
something in in one person's ear and

1720
01:16:24,290 --> 01:16:22,140
they whisper it into the next person's

1721
01:16:27,590 --> 01:16:24,300
ear and by the time you get to the end

1722
01:16:29,390 --> 01:16:27,600
of the line it's a it's a message that

1723
01:16:31,070 --> 01:16:29,400
sounds a little bit like the original

1724
01:16:34,490 --> 01:16:31,080
but not quite

1725
01:16:37,310 --> 01:16:34,500
so I I think that there are um

1726
01:16:40,490 --> 01:16:37,320
there is a lot of Truth and there is a

1727
01:16:43,729 --> 01:16:40,500
lot of legitimate mystery uh I very much

1728
01:16:47,810 --> 01:16:43,739
think that UFOs are going to be

1729
01:16:49,970 --> 01:16:47,820
um a big story this year and uh uh the

1730
01:16:52,430 --> 01:16:49,980
story that it's gonna turn out that a

1731
01:16:55,490 --> 01:16:52,440
lot of the stuff uh wasn't conspiracy it

1732
01:16:58,070 --> 01:16:55,500
was true true stuff you know good answer

1733
01:17:00,290 --> 01:16:58,080
good answer my man no I I absolutely

1734
01:17:03,350 --> 01:17:00,300
believe that um you know we're going to

1735
01:17:07,370 --> 01:17:03,360
find out uh some interesting stuff about

1736
01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:07,380
UFOs yeah I I would have to agree and um

1737
01:17:13,010 --> 01:17:10,260
like you said some of these conspiracies

1738
01:17:15,770 --> 01:17:13,020
turn out to be true I mean you know

1739
01:17:18,410 --> 01:17:15,780
there's that old saying like it takes

1740
01:17:21,050 --> 01:17:18,420
two people to create a conspiracy to

1741
01:17:24,770 --> 01:17:21,060
conspire where the word comes from so I

1742
01:17:26,750 --> 01:17:24,780
mean the a lot of these things it's just

1743
01:17:30,169 --> 01:17:26,760
like we deal with in the UFO field when

1744
01:17:31,930 --> 01:17:30,179
it comes to disinformation or or whatnot

1745
01:17:35,870 --> 01:17:31,940
um when it comes to something like the

1746
01:17:38,510 --> 01:17:35,880
mj-12 documents the supposed files where

1747
01:17:40,850 --> 01:17:38,520
you know like this the all these

1748
01:17:42,770 --> 01:17:40,860
historical powerful Elite knew were

1749
01:17:45,709 --> 01:17:42,780
investigating UFOs and were having

1750
01:17:47,990 --> 01:17:45,719
treaties with aliens blah blah blah

1751
01:17:50,990 --> 01:17:48,000
um and we've all come kind of come to

1752
01:17:53,450 --> 01:17:51,000
the conclusion and many very prominent

1753
01:17:55,729 --> 01:17:53,460
UFO researchers and historians that

1754
01:17:58,550 --> 01:17:55,739
there's probably some truth in here but

1755
01:18:01,010 --> 01:17:58,560
a lot of it's just there to uh make you

1756
01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:01,020
look the other way those those you know

1757
01:18:06,350 --> 01:18:03,840
those two lies between the truth as it

1758
01:18:08,570 --> 01:18:06,360
were so um I I would have to agree I

1759
01:18:10,490 --> 01:18:08,580
think you know this 2021 is going to be

1760
01:18:11,930 --> 01:18:10,500
an interesting year

1761
01:18:14,689 --> 01:18:11,940
um especially with all the political

1762
01:18:17,630 --> 01:18:14,699
Strife in the United States going on and

1763
01:18:20,390 --> 01:18:17,640
we'll probably continue unfortunately uh

1764
01:18:23,330 --> 01:18:20,400
but for the UFO world man I think um

1765
01:18:26,090 --> 01:18:23,340
some big stuff is coming down down the

1766
01:18:29,930 --> 01:18:26,100
pike and uh I'm looking forward to that

1767
01:18:33,530 --> 01:18:29,940
but uh I just I can't help but have this

1768
01:18:35,810 --> 01:18:33,540
pit in my stomach when it comes to

1769
01:18:39,050 --> 01:18:35,820
um this trial going on right now in

1770
01:18:41,930 --> 01:18:39,060
America with the second impeachment of a

1771
01:18:44,870 --> 01:18:41,940
president of the United States and

1772
01:18:48,050 --> 01:18:44,880
um having incited and almost uh allowed

1773
01:18:50,570 --> 01:18:48,060
what happened at the Capitol to happen

1774
01:18:52,850 --> 01:18:50,580
um what do you think is are we going to

1775
01:18:54,530 --> 01:18:52,860
see more of these things popping up I

1776
01:18:57,890 --> 01:18:54,540
mean I know there have been threats by

1777
01:19:00,590 --> 01:18:57,900
things like the proud boys or uh these

1778
01:19:02,149 --> 01:19:00,600
other groups that were a part of what

1779
01:19:04,610 --> 01:19:02,159
happened at the Capitol saying we're not

1780
01:19:07,370 --> 01:19:04,620
done you know there's more stuff coming

1781
01:19:08,030 --> 01:19:07,380
down uh that we're going to be doing

1782
01:19:10,370 --> 01:19:08,040
um

1783
01:19:12,410 --> 01:19:10,380
what do we do how do we combat these

1784
01:19:14,990 --> 01:19:12,420
things when we don't even know who's

1785
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:15,000
involved and we can't tell up from down

1786
01:19:19,370 --> 01:19:17,280
left from right anymore I I sound very

1787
01:19:23,410 --> 01:19:19,380
pessimistic but it's because

1788
01:19:26,870 --> 01:19:23,420
um I'm I'm legitimately concerned

1789
01:19:28,850 --> 01:19:26,880
it is absolutely concerning uh very

1790
01:19:30,709 --> 01:19:28,860
concerning um and that's why I say you

1791
01:19:33,410 --> 01:19:30,719
know conspiracy should be dress

1792
01:19:36,410 --> 01:19:33,420
addressed as like a health emergency a

1793
01:19:38,450 --> 01:19:36,420
National Health Emergency really

1794
01:19:40,430 --> 01:19:38,460
um because and and by the way these are

1795
01:19:42,709 --> 01:19:40,440
people now

1796
01:19:45,890 --> 01:19:42,719
um that Trump is no longer in office

1797
01:19:48,050 --> 01:19:45,900
they believe that the election was a a

1798
01:19:50,570 --> 01:19:48,060
fraud and

1799
01:19:53,149 --> 01:19:50,580
um and they're not just coming after uh

1800
01:19:55,850 --> 01:19:53,159
Democrats these people were chanting

1801
01:19:58,010 --> 01:19:55,860
hang Mike Pence right and uh they're

1802
01:20:00,709 --> 01:19:58,020
conf they're confronting uh Mitt Romney

1803
01:20:03,470 --> 01:20:00,719
and Lindsey Graham at airports I've seen

1804
01:20:05,890 --> 01:20:03,480
video of both of those so they're

1805
01:20:09,830 --> 01:20:05,900
they're after the entire deep state

1806
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:09,840
which is pretty much anyone who isn't

1807
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:12,960
completely aligned with with Trump and

1808
01:20:17,209 --> 01:20:15,120
all those people that you saw they

1809
01:20:19,790 --> 01:20:17,219
didn't magically disappear to anywhere

1810
01:20:22,250 --> 01:20:19,800
they're still out there and uh they're

1811
01:20:24,410 --> 01:20:22,260
super pissed off yeah and that they feel

1812
01:20:28,010 --> 01:20:24,420
like they're they've witnessed this

1813
01:20:29,629 --> 01:20:28,020
election uh fraud pulled off by the Deep

1814
01:20:32,750 --> 01:20:29,639
state or whoever

1815
01:20:35,450 --> 01:20:32,760
so I think that uh

1816
01:20:37,610 --> 01:20:35,460
things to look out for

1817
01:20:39,470 --> 01:20:37,620
um do you remember over the summer it

1818
01:20:42,649 --> 01:20:39,480
was revealed there was this plot to

1819
01:20:46,430 --> 01:20:42,659
kidnap the governor of Michigan right

1820
01:20:49,729 --> 01:20:46,440
yeah yeah uh because they've viewed her

1821
01:20:51,590 --> 01:20:49,739
as a tyrant because she was had lockdown

1822
01:20:53,930 --> 01:20:51,600
orders in Michigan of course because

1823
01:20:55,610 --> 01:20:53,940
there was a pandemic so there was this

1824
01:20:57,110 --> 01:20:55,620
militia type group that called

1825
01:21:00,770 --> 01:20:57,120
themselves

1826
01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:00,780
um the the Wolverine Watchman was the

1827
01:21:05,810 --> 01:21:03,600
name of their their group nice and comic

1828
01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:05,820
book references in one group and they

1829
01:21:11,270 --> 01:21:08,400
were conspiracy Believers too they had

1830
01:21:13,550 --> 01:21:11,280
uh shared links to infowar stuff they

1831
01:21:17,090 --> 01:21:13,560
had uh shared links to pandemic hoax

1832
01:21:19,750 --> 01:21:17,100
stuff and they had progressed on this

1833
01:21:22,729 --> 01:21:19,760
plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan

1834
01:21:24,770 --> 01:21:22,739
and hold a mock trial for her or

1835
01:21:27,530 --> 01:21:24,780
whatever I think that we're going to see

1836
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:27,540
more plots like that in the future uh

1837
01:21:35,090 --> 01:21:31,440
plots to kidnap disrupt you know a sort

1838
01:21:36,770 --> 01:21:35,100
of like Civil War mindset of uh taking

1839
01:21:38,570 --> 01:21:36,780
on the government which is really

1840
01:21:40,370 --> 01:21:38,580
frightening to think about that there

1841
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:40,380
are a lot of people out there with this

1842
01:21:47,570 --> 01:21:44,400
mindset now yeah it's hard because you

1843
01:21:50,090 --> 01:21:47,580
know look at the war the war on terror

1844
01:21:53,629 --> 01:21:50,100
as it were you know we think like going

1845
01:21:56,090 --> 01:21:53,639
over to the Middle East or or you know

1846
01:21:58,430 --> 01:21:56,100
to Africa or wherever these horrible

1847
01:22:01,490 --> 01:21:58,440
things are happening with quote unquote

1848
01:22:03,169 --> 01:22:01,500
terrorists that by blowing up a small

1849
01:22:06,350 --> 01:22:03,179
town full of the terrorists that it's

1850
01:22:08,270 --> 01:22:06,360
gonna solve the problem or you know look

1851
01:22:10,430 --> 01:22:08,280
at America right now we're arresting all

1852
01:22:12,410 --> 01:22:10,440
the people that did what happened at the

1853
01:22:15,470 --> 01:22:12,420
Capitol but that's not going to stop the

1854
01:22:18,050 --> 01:22:15,480
idealism that has been breeded and

1855
01:22:20,270 --> 01:22:18,060
ingrained into these people's minds it's

1856
01:22:22,610 --> 01:22:20,280
probably going to make them more angry

1857
01:22:24,470 --> 01:22:22,620
and empowered you know all these you

1858
01:22:27,590 --> 01:22:24,480
know you got the dude with the face

1859
01:22:30,950 --> 01:22:27,600
paint and the horns in jail right now

1860
01:22:32,750 --> 01:22:30,960
and he's become like a an icon for these

1861
01:22:34,850 --> 01:22:32,760
people who still believe in these things

1862
01:22:37,490 --> 01:22:34,860
they're not going to come out being like

1863
01:22:39,950 --> 01:22:37,500
I've learned my lesson it was all false

1864
01:22:43,490 --> 01:22:39,960
I was duped it's just gonna be another

1865
01:22:46,490 --> 01:22:43,500
part or layer to the story that they're

1866
01:22:48,470 --> 01:22:46,500
creating as they're going on so that's

1867
01:22:51,770 --> 01:22:48,480
what troubles me most is you can yeah

1868
01:22:54,410 --> 01:22:51,780
you can stop certain terrorist groups

1869
01:22:55,729 --> 01:22:54,420
from doing things but you can't stop

1870
01:22:57,970 --> 01:22:55,739
them all

1871
01:23:02,149 --> 01:22:57,980
right yeah and and this has really been

1872
01:23:04,090 --> 01:23:02,159
the wildest thing for me uh as far as

1873
01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:04,100
like looking at the big picture from

1874
01:23:08,350 --> 01:23:06,600
2010 when I first get an email from

1875
01:23:12,830 --> 01:23:08,360
Richard to

1876
01:23:14,510 --> 01:23:12,840
2020-21 uh you know in 2010 Richard was

1877
01:23:16,850 --> 01:23:14,520
very typical of what you would think of

1878
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:16,860
a conspiracy believer he was kind of a

1879
01:23:24,050 --> 01:23:20,280
lone wolf you know he had uh all these

1880
01:23:26,689 --> 01:23:24,060
ideas and he this kind of uh Salon as

1881
01:23:28,010 --> 01:23:26,699
house and then he did this um you know

1882
01:23:31,129 --> 01:23:28,020
this raid and it was kind of like oh

1883
01:23:33,709 --> 01:23:31,139
here's this uh one guy who's really

1884
01:23:36,770 --> 01:23:33,719
Fringe but now you know fast forward to

1885
01:23:38,870 --> 01:23:36,780
2021 and you look at those pictures of

1886
01:23:40,910 --> 01:23:38,880
the capital and there's thousands of

1887
01:23:43,189 --> 01:23:40,920
people there and they all believe this

1888
01:23:45,590 --> 01:23:43,199
conspiracy on some level you know some

1889
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:45,600
more than others but they all at least

1890
01:23:51,709 --> 01:23:48,719
uh believe the general premise that the

1891
01:23:53,990 --> 01:23:51,719
election was stolen with you know fake

1892
01:23:56,510 --> 01:23:54,000
ballots and stuff like that and it's an

1893
01:23:58,490 --> 01:23:56,520
army of conspiracy theorists this is no

1894
01:24:01,129 --> 01:23:58,500
longer like some lone guy out in the

1895
01:24:03,229 --> 01:24:01,139
desert or you know the weird guy who

1896
01:24:05,930 --> 01:24:03,239
lives down the road from you it's like a

1897
01:24:08,689 --> 01:24:05,940
full-on like Army of conspiracy

1898
01:24:09,770 --> 01:24:08,699
Believers so it's just really shocking

1899
01:24:13,070 --> 01:24:09,780
to see

1900
01:24:16,129 --> 01:24:13,080
it moved that direction yeah it's

1901
01:24:18,590 --> 01:24:16,139
shocking it's um disconcerting

1902
01:24:21,169 --> 01:24:18,600
um and you know all of this while we're

1903
01:24:24,110 --> 01:24:21,179
still dealing with a pandemic which has

1904
01:24:27,169 --> 01:24:24,120
also become part of the whole conspiracy

1905
01:24:31,370 --> 01:24:27,179
theory yeah it's really uh it's been

1906
01:24:34,310 --> 01:24:31,380
such a bad stew of you know the pandemic

1907
01:24:36,890 --> 01:24:34,320
um the civil unrest uh having a

1908
01:24:39,350 --> 01:24:36,900
president that's constantly like blaring

1909
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:39,360
out conspiracy it just all mixed

1910
01:24:44,270 --> 01:24:42,480
together to be this really toxic mix of

1911
01:24:47,450 --> 01:24:44,280
and and you know people sitting at home

1912
01:24:50,090 --> 01:24:47,460
they're scared they're angry they're on

1913
01:24:52,370 --> 01:24:50,100
the internet all the time right that's a

1914
01:24:55,850 --> 01:24:52,380
big argument yeah yeah I think this lot

1915
01:24:58,490 --> 01:24:55,860
these lockdowns have been a huge part of

1916
01:25:00,110 --> 01:24:58,500
why people are spending 10 hours on

1917
01:25:02,810 --> 01:25:00,120
YouTube watching Flat Earth

1918
01:25:04,790 --> 01:25:02,820
presentations or um don't take the

1919
01:25:06,290 --> 01:25:04,800
vaccine like you know it's gonna kill

1920
01:25:08,209 --> 01:25:06,300
you blah blah blah

1921
01:25:10,430 --> 01:25:08,219
um yeah I think there's a lot of

1922
01:25:12,649 --> 01:25:10,440
elements to a lot of this there's no one

1923
01:25:15,290 --> 01:25:12,659
right answer of how to

1924
01:25:17,450 --> 01:25:15,300
um deal with it and uh it's tough man

1925
01:25:20,209 --> 01:25:17,460
and you know I I don't want this this

1926
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:20,219
conversation or interview to be like

1927
01:25:25,129 --> 01:25:22,560
Doom and Gloom like we're all gonna die

1928
01:25:27,229 --> 01:25:25,139
like this is the end of society but um

1929
01:25:30,290 --> 01:25:27,239
we have to acknowledge the the issues

1930
01:25:32,750 --> 01:25:30,300
which you do so well in the book of what

1931
01:25:35,570 --> 01:25:32,760
can happen with when one Guy believes

1932
01:25:39,410 --> 01:25:35,580
all this what about an army of them like

1933
01:25:42,830 --> 01:25:39,420
you said so um I guess kind of wrapping

1934
01:25:43,729 --> 01:25:42,840
up everything in a conspiracy bow

1935
01:25:45,649 --> 01:25:43,739
um

1936
01:25:47,689 --> 01:25:45,659
what do you want people to take away

1937
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:47,699
from the book whether it's about the

1938
01:25:52,850 --> 01:25:49,920
story of Richard or the overarching

1939
01:25:55,310 --> 01:25:52,860
issues um yeah what did you walk away

1940
01:25:58,669 --> 01:25:55,320
with after coming out with the book with

1941
01:26:01,250 --> 01:25:58,679
and um why should people read it

1942
01:26:04,490 --> 01:26:01,260
you know I I think when I first started

1943
01:26:07,270 --> 01:26:04,500
on this I was just kind of I was kind of

1944
01:26:09,890 --> 01:26:07,280
delighted that I had come across this

1945
01:26:11,870 --> 01:26:09,900
eccentric person who had this

1946
01:26:14,810 --> 01:26:11,880
interesting life story so I was like all

1947
01:26:16,430 --> 01:26:14,820
right this is this is gonna be uh fun

1948
01:26:19,370 --> 01:26:16,440
for me to write this because I'm gonna

1949
01:26:20,930 --> 01:26:19,380
get to tell about all the weird details

1950
01:26:22,610 --> 01:26:20,940
of this guy's life

1951
01:26:26,149 --> 01:26:22,620
but you know I started to get to know

1952
01:26:29,270 --> 01:26:26,159
him and here's a really a amazing thing

1953
01:26:31,129 --> 01:26:29,280
I think uh you know this was maybe I've

1954
01:26:33,530 --> 01:26:31,139
been working on the book for a couple

1955
01:26:35,390 --> 01:26:33,540
years and I started talking to people

1956
01:26:37,070 --> 01:26:35,400
about it pretty regularly they'd be like

1957
01:26:38,510 --> 01:26:37,080
you know hey T what have you been

1958
01:26:42,110 --> 01:26:38,520
working on

1959
01:26:45,649 --> 01:26:42,120
this book about this really interesting

1960
01:26:48,350 --> 01:26:45,659
guy and he believes in in reptilians and

1961
01:26:50,689 --> 01:26:48,360
he's into all sorts of conspiracy and

1962
01:26:52,970 --> 01:26:50,699
there are so many times where I would

1963
01:26:55,850 --> 01:26:52,980
tell people about this and they would be

1964
01:26:58,129 --> 01:26:55,860
like hey this sounds like this guy uh

1965
01:27:01,550 --> 01:26:58,139
that lives down the street from me or

1966
01:27:03,229 --> 01:27:01,560
this sounds like my ex-boyfriend or a

1967
01:27:05,450 --> 01:27:03,239
guy I used to work with

1968
01:27:08,930 --> 01:27:05,460
and I was like wow there's a lot of

1969
01:27:10,910 --> 01:27:08,940
people out there that are not that

1970
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:10,920
different from Richard

1971
01:27:17,990 --> 01:27:14,880
uh and now you know I mean we have a a

1972
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:18,000
congress person Marjorie green who was

1973
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:19,679
in the news a lot over the last couple

1974
01:27:25,810 --> 01:27:22,800
weeks because uh you know she had some Q

1975
01:27:28,550 --> 01:27:25,820
Anon beliefs but a lot of the stuff that

1976
01:27:31,310 --> 01:27:28,560
congresswoman Marjorie green believes in

1977
01:27:32,810 --> 01:27:31,320
uh we're the same sort of ideas that

1978
01:27:34,189 --> 01:27:32,820
Richard believed in

1979
01:27:37,810 --> 01:27:34,199
so

1980
01:27:41,090 --> 01:27:37,820
um this is a story about America really

1981
01:27:43,790 --> 01:27:41,100
and I hope that reading the book people

1982
01:27:45,590 --> 01:27:43,800
can understand a little bit about where

1983
01:27:48,430 --> 01:27:45,600
some of this comes from

1984
01:27:52,790 --> 01:27:48,440
and why and what some of the motivations

1985
01:27:55,129 --> 01:27:52,800
behind it are uh and it's a it's a

1986
01:27:56,870 --> 01:27:55,139
tragic story I mean I think there is

1987
01:27:59,510 --> 01:27:56,880
some some fun

1988
01:28:02,750 --> 01:27:59,520
interesting part of the story as well

1989
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:02,760
um but ultimately it's about uh a person

1990
01:28:08,510 --> 01:28:06,239
who who had a life and his life was

1991
01:28:11,090 --> 01:28:08,520
really slowly just destroyed because of

1992
01:28:14,149 --> 01:28:11,100
these conspiracy theory beliefs and

1993
01:28:17,689 --> 01:28:14,159
that's uh really tragic it is

1994
01:28:20,149 --> 01:28:17,699
um and I think again you you you hit on

1995
01:28:22,070 --> 01:28:20,159
it so well in the book and in this

1996
01:28:25,129 --> 01:28:22,080
interview tonight of this was a person

1997
01:28:28,129 --> 01:28:25,139
you know as much as we think it might be

1998
01:28:31,490 --> 01:28:28,139
a cool funny kind of kooky story

1999
01:28:32,990 --> 01:28:31,500
um it ended tragically and that's the

2000
01:28:35,810 --> 01:28:33,000
same for a lot of these people out there

2001
01:28:39,169 --> 01:28:35,820
who who do believe in these things and

2002
01:28:40,790 --> 01:28:39,179
um it's so easy for for us to laugh at

2003
01:28:43,129 --> 01:28:40,800
them and think they're stupid for

2004
01:28:45,229 --> 01:28:43,139
believing these things but um there's a

2005
01:28:48,250 --> 01:28:45,239
person behind that and there's a reason

2006
01:28:51,229 --> 01:28:48,260
that it got to this point a

2007
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:51,239
desperation to make sense of the world

2008
01:28:55,430 --> 01:28:53,520
around you and I think you talk about

2009
01:28:57,890 --> 01:28:55,440
this in the book a lot a lot of these

2010
01:29:00,709 --> 01:28:57,900
people they just want to know there's a

2011
01:29:01,910 --> 01:29:00,719
structure to the chaos that is this

2012
01:29:03,770 --> 01:29:01,920
world

2013
01:29:06,770 --> 01:29:03,780
um none of us know why we're truly here

2014
01:29:10,430 --> 01:29:06,780
one of the biggest questions we'll ever

2015
01:29:13,250 --> 01:29:10,440
have and everyone wants purpose and

2016
01:29:14,810 --> 01:29:13,260
meaning and people when they can't find

2017
01:29:17,330 --> 01:29:14,820
it somewhere they're gonna find it

2018
01:29:19,910 --> 01:29:17,340
somewhere else and you will have people

2019
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:19,920
like Alex Jones or David Ike taking

2020
01:29:25,430 --> 01:29:22,320
advantage of that like a cult leader

2021
01:29:27,410 --> 01:29:25,440
would so um again I think it's a book

2022
01:29:28,790 --> 01:29:27,420
about America I love that you put it

2023
01:29:30,890 --> 01:29:28,800
that way there's a reason it's called

2024
01:29:33,229 --> 01:29:30,900
American Madness and yeah these things

2025
01:29:36,169 --> 01:29:33,239
exist all throughout the world in other

2026
01:29:38,209 --> 01:29:36,179
countries incontinence but um when you

2027
01:29:41,930 --> 01:29:38,219
live in a country that Prides itself on

2028
01:29:44,450 --> 01:29:41,940
diversity and uh free speech and

2029
01:29:48,470 --> 01:29:44,460
um you know a right to bear arms that

2030
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:48,480
comes with a lot of uh you know caveats

2031
01:29:52,430 --> 01:29:50,400
and I think you're right it's a

2032
01:29:56,570 --> 01:29:52,440
reflection on where we've been in the

2033
01:29:59,870 --> 01:29:56,580
past where we are now and hopefully a

2034
01:30:02,570 --> 01:29:59,880
better tomorrow I I I hope what do you

2035
01:30:05,689 --> 01:30:02,580
think T do you have hope

2036
01:30:08,689 --> 01:30:05,699
um I do I mean it's easy to get

2037
01:30:10,550 --> 01:30:08,699
overwhelmed like uh thinking about how

2038
01:30:12,470 --> 01:30:10,560
many people believe in this stuff but

2039
01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:12,480
you know I try to balance that out by

2040
01:30:17,209 --> 01:30:15,360
thinking about how many people are out

2041
01:30:18,830 --> 01:30:17,219
there doing good stuff and trying to get

2042
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:18,840
good information out there in the world

2043
01:30:23,990 --> 01:30:21,840
because there are those people too uh

2044
01:30:26,149 --> 01:30:24,000
and hopefully that's helping to to

2045
01:30:28,189 --> 01:30:26,159
balance the scales a little bit

2046
01:30:30,410 --> 01:30:28,199
yeah and you know if there's anything

2047
01:30:32,209 --> 01:30:30,420
I've learned it's um just because

2048
01:30:34,910 --> 01:30:32,219
someone believes in this queuing on

2049
01:30:36,830 --> 01:30:34,920
stuff like it's easy to just

2050
01:30:39,050 --> 01:30:36,840
you know go on social media and say

2051
01:30:40,970 --> 01:30:39,060
you're an idiot you're an idiot but my

2052
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:40,980
mentor Peter Robbins told me when I got

2053
01:30:45,050 --> 01:30:42,960
into the UFO field he said you're gonna

2054
01:30:46,729 --> 01:30:45,060
meet some crazy people with crazy

2055
01:30:48,830 --> 01:30:46,739
stories

2056
01:30:51,950 --> 01:30:48,840
um and it's gonna be tough he said so

2057
01:30:54,350 --> 01:30:51,960
you have to have empathy and um just

2058
01:30:56,090 --> 01:30:54,360
kind of put yourself in their shoes and

2059
01:30:58,310 --> 01:30:56,100
uh and

2060
01:31:00,169 --> 01:30:58,320
try to understand how we got to this

2061
01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:00,179
point with this individual who claims

2062
01:31:05,149 --> 01:31:02,400
they've been abducted by aliens or they

2063
01:31:07,669 --> 01:31:05,159
met the reptilians um so I think I kind

2064
01:31:09,530 --> 01:31:07,679
of take that into consideration too is

2065
01:31:11,750 --> 01:31:09,540
having empathy and

2066
01:31:14,390 --> 01:31:11,760
um there's a reason they got to this

2067
01:31:16,910 --> 01:31:14,400
point let's try to figure that out and

2068
01:31:18,649 --> 01:31:16,920
um and talk about it instead of um I I

2069
01:31:20,810 --> 01:31:18,659
think it comes down too we have a lot

2070
01:31:23,149 --> 01:31:20,820
more in common with each other than we

2071
01:31:25,850 --> 01:31:23,159
don't and um I think if more people

2072
01:31:28,910 --> 01:31:25,860
thought that way hopefully we'll live in

2073
01:31:31,790 --> 01:31:28,920
a better world someday but um yeah man

2074
01:31:32,870 --> 01:31:31,800
I'm looking forward to 2021 in the UFO

2075
01:31:37,010 --> 01:31:32,880
World

2076
01:31:39,770 --> 01:31:37,020
um with a lot of reflection as well in

2077
01:31:41,930 --> 01:31:39,780
this country of what has happened and

2078
01:31:45,169 --> 01:31:41,940
hopefully what will not happen again

2079
01:31:48,050 --> 01:31:45,179
with these attacks and um death threats

2080
01:31:50,330 --> 01:31:48,060
to either side of the aisle like you

2081
01:31:53,030 --> 01:31:50,340
mentioned um we have to look past

2082
01:31:55,129 --> 01:31:53,040
politics when it comes to all this

2083
01:31:57,050 --> 01:31:55,139
um and hopefully come out on the other

2084
01:31:59,629 --> 01:31:57,060
side better people so so that's my

2085
01:32:00,649 --> 01:31:59,639
little soapbox moment but uh before we

2086
01:32:02,510 --> 01:32:00,659
go brother

2087
01:32:04,370 --> 01:32:02,520
um yeah is there anything else I'm

2088
01:32:07,010 --> 01:32:04,380
really missing that you wanted to uh

2089
01:32:09,410 --> 01:32:07,020
discuss in terms of um either the book

2090
01:32:12,830 --> 01:32:09,420
or conspiracy theory

2091
01:32:15,169 --> 01:32:12,840
no I think that we covered a lot of it

2092
01:32:17,689 --> 01:32:15,179
um it's it's interesting

2093
01:32:20,149 --> 01:32:17,699
um the only thing I would you know I I

2094
01:32:22,310 --> 01:32:20,159
like trying to have an open mind I I

2095
01:32:24,169 --> 01:32:22,320
think that I'm I'm open-minded about a

2096
01:32:25,669 --> 01:32:24,179
lot of things

2097
01:32:28,490 --> 01:32:25,679
um you know like I said I'm into a lot

2098
01:32:30,530 --> 01:32:28,500
of paranormal stuff so I'm certainly

2099
01:32:31,910 --> 01:32:30,540
willing to entertain ideas but you know

2100
01:32:34,129 --> 01:32:31,920
there's a line

2101
01:32:36,169 --> 01:32:34,139
reserve a line where

2102
01:32:38,270 --> 01:32:36,179
um that really became clear to me

2103
01:32:41,870 --> 01:32:38,280
working on this book and over the last

2104
01:32:45,169 --> 01:32:41,880
couple years where uh I can I can hang

2105
01:32:46,910 --> 01:32:45,179
with someone telling me about how uh

2106
01:32:50,030 --> 01:32:46,920
they telepathically communicate with

2107
01:32:52,250 --> 01:32:50,040
Bigfoot or something I was like okay but

2108
01:32:55,310 --> 01:32:52,260
if you know someone starts telling me

2109
01:32:56,870 --> 01:32:55,320
about how uh Hillary Clinton eats babies

2110
01:32:58,790 --> 01:32:56,880
or something and they're gonna get a

2111
01:33:01,669 --> 01:32:58,800
bunch of guns and and go try to shoot

2112
01:33:04,250 --> 01:33:01,679
her it's a different story you know so

2113
01:33:06,709 --> 01:33:04,260
it's a it's something I've really been

2114
01:33:08,990 --> 01:33:06,719
kind of struggling with like in the

2115
01:33:09,910 --> 01:33:09,000
Paranormal World sometimes just trying

2116
01:33:13,310 --> 01:33:09,920
to

2117
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:13,320
uh differentiate between uh like I say

2118
01:33:20,390 --> 01:33:16,560
what's good weird interesting fun stuff

2119
01:33:22,850 --> 01:33:20,400
and and what's uh maybe some Q Anon

2120
01:33:25,550 --> 01:33:22,860
propaganda or something like that yeah

2121
01:33:28,010 --> 01:33:25,560
yeah it's uh and it doesn't get easier

2122
01:33:30,830 --> 01:33:28,020
trust me brother it's a struggle every

2123
01:33:32,990 --> 01:33:30,840
day for me as well in the UFO field but

2124
01:33:35,810 --> 01:33:33,000
um you mentioned the word weird so we

2125
01:33:37,010 --> 01:33:35,820
have to talk about your podcast your

2126
01:33:38,750 --> 01:33:37,020
website

2127
01:33:41,750 --> 01:33:38,760
um tell us about everything you got

2128
01:33:45,350 --> 01:33:41,760
going on over there and of course where

2129
01:33:48,189 --> 01:33:45,360
can we get American Madness oh cool

2130
01:33:50,270 --> 01:33:48,199
um yeah so I have a website tcrulos.com

2131
01:33:53,390 --> 01:33:50,280
and uh you can find out information

2132
01:33:55,610 --> 01:33:53,400
about all of my books on there I also

2133
01:33:57,890 --> 01:33:55,620
write a weekly column called tease weird

2134
01:34:00,169 --> 01:33:57,900
week and it's really just you know me

2135
01:34:03,530 --> 01:34:00,179
writing about whatever subject I want to

2136
01:34:05,629 --> 01:34:03,540
that particular uh week uh as the title

2137
01:34:08,870 --> 01:34:05,639
implies you know I write a lot about

2138
01:34:12,229 --> 01:34:08,880
paranormal stuff conspiracy uh unusual

2139
01:34:14,330 --> 01:34:12,239
subcultures stuff like that and just

2140
01:34:18,229 --> 01:34:14,340
about a month ago I started doing a

2141
01:34:20,149 --> 01:34:18,239
podcast version of the column where um

2142
01:34:22,490 --> 01:34:20,159
you know I interview someone like uh

2143
01:34:25,310 --> 01:34:22,500
Ryan was on a recent episode which was

2144
01:34:27,050 --> 01:34:25,320
great uh I interview a guest and uh then

2145
01:34:29,450 --> 01:34:27,060
me and my friend Heidi kind of go

2146
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,460
through some weird news and we usually

2147
01:34:34,250 --> 01:34:31,440
end with a track from a

2148
01:34:36,110 --> 01:34:34,260
um an awesome band so it's fun I'm

2149
01:34:37,970 --> 01:34:36,120
enjoying doing that it was kind of a

2150
01:34:39,890 --> 01:34:37,980
pandemic project that I finally got

2151
01:34:41,689 --> 01:34:39,900
around to

2152
01:34:44,030 --> 01:34:41,699
um but you can check that out every week

2153
01:34:46,370 --> 01:34:44,040
at tcruelos.com

2154
01:34:48,350 --> 01:34:46,380
awesome my man and the book is available

2155
01:34:50,330 --> 01:34:48,360
I assume oh yeah uh that's available

2156
01:34:52,689 --> 01:34:50,340
yeah

2157
01:34:55,669 --> 01:34:52,699
um I usually tell people to check out

2158
01:34:57,950 --> 01:34:55,679
bookshop.org uh because they're a cool

2159
01:35:01,669 --> 01:34:57,960
site and they actually kick some money

2160
01:35:03,229 --> 01:35:01,679
to local independent bookstores so I

2161
01:35:05,810 --> 01:35:03,239
really like that option but it is

2162
01:35:06,890 --> 01:35:05,820
available wherever you can find books as

2163
01:35:09,109 --> 01:35:06,900
well

2164
01:35:12,109 --> 01:35:09,119
um and if you go at my website I have a

2165
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:12,119
American Madness tab that has some links

2166
01:35:18,109 --> 01:35:15,600
uh to places you can buy it cool

2167
01:35:21,290 --> 01:35:18,119
um well I want to end with um you

2168
01:35:23,629 --> 01:35:21,300
mentioned music and that um that was

2169
01:35:26,510 --> 01:35:23,639
part of the book as well

2170
01:35:29,450 --> 01:35:26,520
um can you remind me of I mean this is

2171
01:35:32,090 --> 01:35:29,460
crazy one of the some band actually made

2172
01:35:34,669 --> 01:35:32,100
a song about the Phantom Patriot this

2173
01:35:36,770 --> 01:35:34,679
guy right here supposedly so I think I'm

2174
01:35:39,470 --> 01:35:36,780
gonna play a little of the song to to

2175
01:35:41,149 --> 01:35:39,480
get us out here in post-production but

2176
01:35:43,609 --> 01:35:41,159
um yeah can you leave us with that

2177
01:35:46,609 --> 01:35:43,619
there's so many little stories within

2178
01:35:48,350 --> 01:35:46,619
this book that this or a strange turn

2179
01:35:51,050 --> 01:35:48,360
you know yeah

2180
01:35:54,410 --> 01:35:51,060
um so Les Claypool uh who's in the band

2181
01:35:56,689 --> 01:35:54,420
Primus uh he lives not far from the

2182
01:35:58,910 --> 01:35:56,699
Bohemian Grove uh an Occidental

2183
01:36:01,010 --> 01:35:58,920
California

2184
01:36:03,109 --> 01:36:01,020
um so he was reading the local newspaper

2185
01:36:05,510 --> 01:36:03,119
again not a lot of media picked up on

2186
01:36:08,330 --> 01:36:05,520
the story but some newspapers in

2187
01:36:11,330 --> 01:36:08,340
Northern California did uh Les Claypool

2188
01:36:14,090 --> 01:36:11,340
sees this short news article and he's

2189
01:36:17,030 --> 01:36:14,100
inspired to write a song about it so he

2190
01:36:21,109 --> 01:36:17,040
writes the song a phantom Patriot which

2191
01:36:23,930 --> 01:36:21,119
was on his album in 2006 uh of Wales and

2192
01:36:26,330 --> 01:36:23,940
woe is the name of the album and it's

2193
01:36:28,370 --> 01:36:26,340
just kind of like a news report set to

2194
01:36:31,250 --> 01:36:28,380
music you know he talks about Richard

2195
01:36:35,810 --> 01:36:31,260
sneaking into the Bohemian Grove and the

2196
01:36:38,570 --> 01:36:35,820
choruses goes the Phantom Patriot uh but

2197
01:36:41,270 --> 01:36:38,580
well it's really fun was I like harassed

2198
01:36:42,770 --> 01:36:41,280
his his talent manager pretty much I

2199
01:36:45,410 --> 01:36:42,780
just emailed them over and over again

2200
01:36:46,970 --> 01:36:45,420
for like months and months saying hey

2201
01:36:48,770 --> 01:36:46,980
could you give me some phone time to

2202
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:48,780
talk to Les Claypool I want to ask him

2203
01:36:53,330 --> 01:36:51,600
about this this song and finally they're

2204
01:36:56,330 --> 01:36:53,340
like all right you can have 10 minutes

2205
01:36:58,910 --> 01:36:56,340
with less he's on he's on tour right now

2206
01:37:00,350 --> 01:36:58,920
with tool down in Texas

2207
01:37:01,850 --> 01:37:00,360
we'll get them on the phone for 10

2208
01:37:04,310 --> 01:37:01,860
minutes

2209
01:37:07,189 --> 01:37:04,320
um and it was a very awkward interview

2210
01:37:09,290 --> 01:37:07,199
because he was freaked out by Richard he

2211
01:37:11,149 --> 01:37:09,300
was like I'm not I'm not sure about this

2212
01:37:13,129 --> 01:37:11,159
is this guy gonna like show up at one of

2213
01:37:15,649 --> 01:37:13,139
my shows and try to kill me

2214
01:37:17,330 --> 01:37:15,659
and I was like I don't I don't think so

2215
01:37:20,390 --> 01:37:17,340
I mean

2216
01:37:22,669 --> 01:37:20,400
can't make any promises yeah but it was

2217
01:37:25,970 --> 01:37:22,679
it was cool to to have a chance to talk

2218
01:37:27,709 --> 01:37:25,980
to him just for a few minutes even yeah

2219
01:37:30,169 --> 01:37:27,719
yeah I thought that was a pretty cool

2220
01:37:31,189 --> 01:37:30,179
little uh addendum to the story overall

2221
01:37:35,629 --> 01:37:31,199
well

2222
01:37:37,550 --> 01:37:35,639
um T I mean I think Richard would be so

2223
01:37:39,470 --> 01:37:37,560
proud of what you put together I mean

2224
01:37:41,990 --> 01:37:39,480
this is a guy who struggled for

2225
01:37:44,750 --> 01:37:42,000
acceptance his whole life all he wanted

2226
01:37:46,669 --> 01:37:44,760
was to be heard and um you know you can

2227
01:37:49,430 --> 01:37:46,679
see it in that video at the Bohemian

2228
01:37:52,010 --> 01:37:49,440
Club of finally people were there like

2229
01:37:55,490 --> 01:37:52,020
next to him and support him no matter

2230
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:55,500
how far out his beliefs were

2231
01:38:01,129 --> 01:37:58,080
um again I keep stressing it there's a

2232
01:38:03,470 --> 01:38:01,139
person behind all of these and um he

2233
01:38:06,590 --> 01:38:03,480
just wanted to be listened to and now we

2234
01:38:09,109 --> 01:38:06,600
have something that will live eternally

2235
01:38:10,729 --> 01:38:09,119
about Richard and I'm sure he would he

2236
01:38:13,370 --> 01:38:10,739
would really appreciate that man again

2237
01:38:17,270 --> 01:38:13,380
whether you believe in the stuff he did

2238
01:38:19,490 --> 01:38:17,280
or not so um hey it was so good to um to

2239
01:38:22,430 --> 01:38:19,500
to stretch my muscles tonight and not

2240
01:38:25,250 --> 01:38:22,440
talk about UFOs for two hours but to

2241
01:38:27,410 --> 01:38:25,260
talk about this extremely compelling

2242
01:38:29,510 --> 01:38:27,420
book that you put together man so I

2243
01:38:31,550 --> 01:38:29,520
gotta thank you for um the book first of

2244
01:38:34,189 --> 01:38:31,560
all and also for coming on somewhere in

2245
01:38:52,350 --> 01:38:34,199
the skies oh thanks for having me uh

2246
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:56,510
[Music]